Re: Chris Hill ???? : Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:14 pm  

We have a secure Super League future thanks to the work of our Chairman, quite rightly that has been the priority.

We've managed to remain at the higher end of competitiveness, with still hope of silverware this year. I'd also hoped for a star studded line up to take to the new stadium next year, but again the re-signing of Roby and TP are as important and high profile as any new recruit. Our two additions are quality players and if Perry does a Soliola, it'll be like a third top drawer signing. I'm still not convinced we're finished with the 'ins' either.

The future is bright, and top flight, and that's what really matters.

Re: Chris Hill ???? : Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:48 pm  

Cragganmore Kid wrote:

We have a secure Super League future thanks to the work of our Chairman, quite rightly that has been the priority.

We've managed to remain at the higher end of competitiveness, with still hope of silverware this year. I'd also hoped for a star studded line up to take to the new stadium next year, but again the re-signing of Roby and TP are as important and high profile as any new recruit. Our two additions are quality players and if Perry does a Soliola, it'll be like a third top drawer signing. I'm still not convinced we're finished with the 'ins' either.

The future is bright, and top flight, and that's what really matters.

agree with all of this

Re: Chris Hill ???? : Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:37 pm  

St pete wrote:

It don't matter what backing Warrington have, they still have a salary cap to stay under. We could have bill gates running saints but still can only spend to the cap.

No matter how you try and dress it up, it's obvious saints are trying to do it on the cheap.

The thing people forget about warringtons salary cap is the players that do get overlooked nowadays, such as Jon Clarke, who was playing for England just 2 years ago are still going to be on good contracts. Clubs cant just lower a players wages just because he is not being used on a regular basis, people go on about the players warrington bring in and why are they not over, but the players leaving were signed arnt going to be on small contracts.

Re: Chris Hill ???? : Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:59 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

Man for man

1 Brett Hodgson
Paul Wellens (I reckon these 2 are on comparable money especially with the discount for Wellens)
2 Chris Riley
Gardner (Genuinly no idea who would be on more)
3 Matt King
Shenton (Surely king on more but shenton will not be on peanuts)
4 Chris Bridge
Soliola (Soliola on more)
5 Joel Monaghan
Meli (don't know as Joel was desperate for a move at the time)
6 Lee Briers
Pryce (I'dsay pryce, but Briers will have the discount for the club)
7 Richard Myler
Eastmond (about equal i'd say)
8 Adrian Morley
Perry (not sure but perry would not be cheap)
9 Michael Monaghan
Roby (I think Roby would be on more given the new deal)
10 Garreth Carvell
Graham (Graham on more by far)
11 Louis Anderson
Puletua (TP on more than Anderson)
12 Ben Westwood
Wilkin (not sure, but Wilkin will have a fair chunk)
13 Ben Harrison
Flannery (no idea who would be on more)
14 Mick Higham
Scott Moore ( I imagine higham will be on more, but who knows)
15 Jon Clarke
LMS (probably LMS on more)
16 Paul Wood
CLough (wood I would imagine gets more)
17 Simon Grix
Wheeler (grix maybe?)


Our squad goes to 29, on this site, Warrington only 27.

So when you look at the first 17 of each club I fail to see where we are going cheap. When you look at the rest of the squads, there are mostly youth players apart from Warrington having solimona at 26.

To put it simply though our first 17 are not playing for any length of time as a team. Gardner out for long period this year, as have been or are Pryce, Eastmond, Perry, Flannery, Moore, Clough, Wheeler.

Re: Chris Hill ???? : Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:05 pm  

howley-wire wrote:

:STUPID:

I thought bewareshadows had looked at things subjectively to examine whether in truth Warrington are likely to be paying more in salaries than Saints.

The only thing I'd pick him/her up on is Riley will be on pea-nuts compared to Gardener and he has ignored Ryan Atkins (no 23) from the Warrington squad, beyond that I think if anything he was being generous towards Warrington.

I'd suggest you have proved yourself to be the stupid one by not being able to understand the point being made.

Re: Chris Hill ???? : Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:15 pm  

Paul Youane wrote:

:STUPID:

I thought bewareshadows had looked at things subjectively to examine whether in truth Warrington are likely to be paying more in salaries than Saints.

The only thing I'd pick him/her up on is Riley will be on pea-nuts compared to Gardener and he has ignored Ryan Atkins (no 23) from the Warrington squad, beyond that I think if anything he was being generous towards Warrington.

I'd suggest you have proved yourself to be the stupid one by not being able to understand the point being made.

I think it's safe to say the point he's making is a load of rubbish. I could list Melbourne cap-busting squad from last year and say all the Gateshead players were on more. Matt King is on £750,000 a year, everyone knows that.

What interests me is that Warrington were ones of the clubs mentioned about a year ago in relation to them being in massive trouble with HMRC over the image rights issues. There was talk of a £2m liability. That just seemed to disappear into smoke, what happened there? I remember there was talk in the press of several SL clubs being in trouble and one or two potentially facing closure over it. Has this been sorted?

It's still possible some clubs are using different methods to pay their players than other clubs. If Saints are paying anywhere near the cap on our ensemble of children and the odd decent player then we're managing the cap horrifically compared to the likes of Wire, Wigan and the Giants. Entirely possible I suppose but we'll never know. The cap is run by the RFL. The clubs could drive a bus through the loopholes and the auditors no doubt. I've always been banging on about it, but third party payments are impossible to find and I'll bet they don't even try to look for breaches of cap rules, preferring the lack of bad publicity their ignorance brings.

Re: Chris Hill ???? : Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:27 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

What interests me is that Warrington were ones of the clubs mentioned about a year ago in relation to them being in massive trouble with HMRC over the image rights issues.

Only on other club's forums from the like of yourself.

The only time I remember Warrington being linked to this was when Gatcliffe had a press reports issued saying that the club were in the clear on this issue.

Amazingly on this point Wigan fans seem to claim the moral high-ground of Wigan not being involved yet their own auditors would not pass Wigan's accounts the other year unless they were allowed to add their own statement to the effect that the club were looking at a possible liability not reported in the accounts due to an on-going investigation by HMRC relating to image right payments.

Here's one to think about - despite bewareshadows not being able to split them I reckon that Gardener will be on 4 times the salary of Riley. A lot of it comes down to value for money.

Re: Chris Hill ???? : Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:33 pm  

Paul Youane wrote:

Only on other club's forums from the like of yourself.

The only time I remember Warrington being linked to this was when Gatcliffe had a press reports issued saying that the club were in the clear on this issue.

Amazingly on this point Wigan fans seem to claim the moral high-ground of Wigan not being involved yet their own auditors would not pass Wigan's accounts the other year unless they were allowed to add their own statement to the effect that the club were looking at a possible liability not reported in the accounts due to an on-going investigation by HMRC relating to image right payments.

Here's one to think about - despite bewareshadows not being able to split them I reckon that Gardener will be on 4 times the salary of Riley. A lot of it comes down to value for money.

So the image rights issue was never an issue then? And all the talk of £2m liabilities for SL clubs isn't true? I remember reading a couple of months ago about image rights in an article about the football financial fair play regulations and it mentioned the issue was going to rip the RL salary cap apart.

Has the payment whilst on the plane loophole been closed now as well?

Personally I'd give £10,000 to see the salary cap calculations for each team. Just to know what we're doing with our's firstly. How Warrington use their's would also be fascinating. You always seem to match senior players in with out, yet are still able to renew youth players contracts. Something we seem to not have room to do. We've shedded twice as many senior players over recent seasons, so perhaps we're just massively overpaying our youth players, but that doesn't explain why we don't ever pick any up from other SL clubs.

Re: Chris Hill ???? : Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:57 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

So the image rights issue was never an issue then? And all the talk of £2m liabilities for SL clubs isn't true? I remember reading a couple of months ago about image rights in an article about the football financial fair play regulations and it mentioned the issue was going to rip the RL salary cap apart.

Has the payment whilst on the plane loophole been closed now as well?

Personally I'd give £10,000 to see the salary cap calculations for each team. Just to know what we're doing with our's firstly. How Warrington use their's would also be fascinating. You always seem to match senior players in with out, yet are still able to renew youth players contracts. Something we seem to not have room to do. We've shedded twice as many senior players over recent seasons, so perhaps we're just massively overpaying our youth players, but that doesn't explain why we don't ever pick any up from other SL clubs.

I thought it was Leeds that had the massive potential liability and were the test case (which they will win and rugby league clubs will be cut the same deal as union clubs). I reckon Saints were also one of the big users of the loophole - remember the Sonny Bill contract offer that was leaked (it was on an internet forum so must be true) and are having to cut back on its use now hence the apparent in-balance of players in against players out.

Warrington also use transfer fees to secure players who are under contract and therefore as nobody can match us on transfer fees we negotiate with players over contracts with no other parties to be played-off against. I bet Saints are paying whay over the odds salary wise for Shenton and McCarthy Scarsbrook due to their Bosman status when negotiating; Myler, Atkins, Carvell, Bridge, Westwood and Grix were all signed with over a year left on their deals at their current clubs and wanted out. Cashed-up Warrington offered an exit, with pay-rise but not top dollar as a bonus.

Warrington also award long contracts, 4 years being the norm for good players, and then look to re-negotiate to extend well before the end of the contract before any other club is sniffing around whispering into agents' ears. Players are happy for the security that a long deal gives and if things crop up and things need to change, well ask Chris Hicks about that.

I know Saints fans like to praise the savy business skills of McManus (what happened to the other billionaires who supposedly joined Saints board - I hope their not waiting on the new stadium to cash-in on their investment) and no doubt he is a grade A* banker but I don't think he has the entruepernal(sp) vision of Simon Moran at Warrington and the savvy of how to get the best from dealing with "prima-donnas".

Too straight-laced bankers and not known for taking risky decisions.

Re: Chris Hill ???? : Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:20 pm  

Things change from maurice lindsey in the late 80's to early 90's and then to mcmanaus and the chap at leeds who ever since iv'e watched rl has tried to
buy leeds the title, even signing doug laughton and ellery hanley to no effect. saints have always had good backing and a strong foot in the transfer
market especially in the sl era. if you look at the sides saints have had over the sl period then you also could question the money they were on.
yes there was some home bred players, but those players matured into world class players and i'm sure kc wouldn't be happy on a
'how you doing thatto heath' salary when bought in players would have been on much more.