FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

   WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Royce Out !
::[url=//saints.org.uk](Website)[/url]
Rommel 
RankPostsTeam
Club Owner5852
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 24 200421 years278th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
30th Sep 24 09:392nd Jun 24 17:19LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Haydock
Signature
Ahh Tesco
Building St Helens & Warrington's future
Destroying Wigans past

"Viva Ben Flower, Viva Ben Flower, could have won the cup but you Messed it up Viva Ben Flower"

Re: Royce Out ! : Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:53 am  
Saint Simon wrote:
Give it Keiron Purtell for the rest of the season, he's always saying he needs a chance and whats the worst that could happen? we miss the 8 and Eamonn is forced to invest in the squad and a proper coach?
Its simple maths for Eamonn 15k fans or 10k and £100k less in his pocket EVERY home game. Thats the difference between a top 3 Saints and a 9th placed Saints and i'm being generous there.


Totally disagree with Kieron Purtell as surly that's his job now? i know Royce is head coach but I'm sure Kieron must have a big say in tactics and coaching? so get rid of both?
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Administrator25122No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 05 200123 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
13th Jul 17 01:3911th May 17 20:59LINK
Milestone Posts
25000
30000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Aleph Green

Re: Royce Out ! : Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:53 am  
Wellsy13 wrote:
If Royce goes though, who else is available? Who do you replace him with? There's no point replacing like with like.

I'd be very surprised if they weren't already looking. Dare I say Brian Noble!


The last thing Saints want is another good-but-not-great coach tied to a long-term contract as Noble will inevitably demand.
RankPostsTeam
International Star1934No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
May 09 201113 years286th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
15th Nov 23 14:0123rd Mar 23 01:19LINK
Milestone Posts
1000
2500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Royce Out ! : Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:56 am  
Adeybull wrote:
As I have said elsewhere, and as other Bulls fans have posted on this thread, this all reads like groundhog day for us. It's all almost word for word where we were several years ago. The only real difference is that ours was down to having no money, which led to a long term decline. Yours can't be down to that, so presumably can be fixed far more quickly?


No money plus a truly appalling recruitment and retention policy. Some of Saints decisions (starting the season without a scrum half, signing a good NRL second rower and playing him at prop) are remarkably Bradfordian.
Dux 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member4411
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 13 200322 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
1st Feb 24 10:3111th Apr 18 12:42LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Liverpool

Re: Royce Out ! : Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:22 am  
In some areas I don't think we are as bad as people are suggesting. I don't think motivation or fitness are real issues, and our defence, while far from excellent, has been much improved in the last few weeks.

Where we are really struggling is in our attack. It's absolutely woeful. There is virtually nobody running off the ball at any time. We don't even seem to do the simple lead runner and guy round the back play anymore. We are playing with so few options that we are easy to defend against. This problem is causing a couple of issues:

1. We are failing to capitalise on decent territory earned the hard way by our forwards in the first half of games. This is resulting in a visible wave of panic going through the side that only serves make the fundamental problem worse.

2. Our forwards are running out of juice by the hour mark. I think this is being mistaken for a lack of effort or fitness, when in fact it is down to the fact that our hopelessly predictable attack means our opponents can easily put numbers in the tackle against them. They might as well have 'hit me' written on their shirts.

The lack of structure in our attack is alarming, and you have to place responsibility for that sort of thing with the coaching team.
RankPostsTeam
Club Owner7605No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 31 200321 years221st
OnlineLast PostLast Page
16th May 24 12:2516th May 24 12:25LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Royce Out ! : Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:28 am  
Simmons is doing himself no favours wearing the cheap looking track-suit top for interviews. It is not a good look for a man of his age and actually gives him the look of a "skip-dipper" from the council tip.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Administrator25122No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 05 200123 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
13th Jul 17 01:3911th May 17 20:59LINK
Milestone Posts
25000
30000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Aleph Green

Re: Royce Out ! : Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:31 am  
Dux wrote:
In some areas I don't think we are as bad as people are suggesting. I don't think motivation or fitness are real issues, and our defence, while far from excellent, has been much improved in the last few weeks.

Where we are really struggling is in our attack. It's absolutely woeful. There is virtually nobody running off the ball at any time. We don't even seem to do the simple lead runner and guy round the back play anymore. We are playing with so few options that we are easy to defend against. This problem is causing a couple of issues:

1. We are failing to capitalise on decent territory earned the hard way by our forwards in the first half of games. This is resulting in a visible wave of panic going through the side that only serves make the fundamental problem worse.

2. Our forwards are running out of juice by the hour mark. I think this is being mistaken for a lack of effort or fitness, when in fact it is down to the fact that our hopelessly predictable attack means our opponents can easily put numbers in the tackle against them. They might as well have 'hit me' written on their shirts.

The lack of structure in our attack is alarming, and you have to place responsibility for that sort of thing with the coaching team.


Royce's attacking strategies are open to question. But I really think the issue is far more simple: we have NO scrum half. It is nigh-on impossible to organise a cohesive attacking strategy without a single functioning scrum half. We don't even have a RESERVE scrum half.
Webbo 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman3409No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 06 200223 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
14th Sep 14 20:082nd Jul 12 16:10LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
I'm on the top of the world looking down on creation.
Signature
Hello again

Re: Royce Out ! : Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:33 am  
Wellsy13 wrote:
Down to retirement of the senior players and top players being pillaged by union/NRL in a short space of time. In the last few years they've lost Sculthorpe, Long, Cunningham, Graham and Eastmond. Roby is all that's left. Wellens is hardly the player he was, and the young players aren't ready yet.


All of those players were on serious coin, and their salaries will have been paid out to other players who've either joined the cluib, or advanced through the ranks.

The problem IMO is two-fold.

Firstly, the players brought in just haven't been of the same quality. Some came with big reputations and haven't lived up to them; others were younger players who've not fulfilled their promise (indeed seem to have gone backwards). Every club signs these players - it's just that here we've had a procession of them. Is this poor recruitment, simple bad luck or bad coaching?

Which brings me to the second part of the problem. Look at the evolution of our team over the course of Super League, and especially from Millward onwards. Millward brought a cavalier attitude to our play (reminscent of the pre-Sl era, although now with good players and a no longer financially dominant wi*an). Our gameplan was aided by quick PTB's and keeping the opposition on the back foot when we got on a roll, along with keeping the ball alive. Our defence at times was bobbins, though. Anderson toughened the defence and brought more organisation. And, although we lost the unpredictability of the Millward golden era, we still played mostly entertaining rugby.

The rot, IMO, came with Potter. More organisation, less unpredictability. Although we conceded less, we became much easier to defend against. This was the culture in which many of our players now in the team were brought through in. The Potter appointment, with hindsight, was a very poor one. Not that he's necessarily a bad coach, but because he was wrong for Saints. I guess one mitigating factor is that around the time Potter came in, the RFL were tinkering with the rules and the interpretation thereof in terms of the ruck. After a period of ensuring players had to let the tackled player up immediately with a 10m defensive line rigidly enforced, defences were given much more latitude to slow the PTB and the distance to the defensive line seems far shorter these days. We were never going to consistently drive teams back with uber-quick PTB's and scoots from dummy half, so Potter had to change our 'plan A'. It's just that he never came up with anything effective, and we eneded up playing one-dimensional, boring rugby.

So, after Potter, we needed a top level coach to get the team back to their 'entertainers' culture. Unfortunately, on current evidence, Simmons unable to do this. If anything, we've gone further backwards in terms of attacking flair.

But we cannot panic now and sack Simmons - unless there is a top-class coach available (which I don't think there is) because, as Mugwump says, it'd be counter-productive (and more damaging in the long-term) to hand the reigns to an average coach for anything other than the rest of the season, and the type of coaches who'd take a short-term contract wouldn't, IMO, be of the calibre needed to turn our season around.

The issue I have with Royce, though, is that he seems too stubborn and, when an idea or tactic isn't working, he won't recognise this and remedy it, preferring to keep plugging away in the vain hope it'll come good, when everyone else can see it won't.

The change I'd make is that, now Lance is more familiar with the team, he should play at No7. He's an experienced player and should be given the role of organiser-in-chief.
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman870No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 22 200123 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
27th Mar 19 08:258th Apr 14 11:08LINK
Milestone Posts
500
1000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Royce Out ! : Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:39 am  
Whilst it is clear that our squad is not as good as it has been in previous years, and that we have lost some class players in important positions. I think people need to look at the squad and compare it to other teams. We have a very competitive squad on paper, but we are under-performing. Regardless of the challenges of having an inexperienced half back pairing, lacking leadership, and losing graham we should still be doing much better. We aren't doing the basics right, and we are clueless in attack.

We still, despite the current weaknesses in the squad, have the quality to achieve top 4, so questions have to be asked why it isn't happening and what is going to be done about it.
Dux 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member4411
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 13 200322 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
1st Feb 24 10:3111th Apr 18 12:42LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Liverpool

Re: Royce Out ! : Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:41 am  
Mugwump wrote:
Royce's attacking strategies are open to question. But I really think the issue is far more simple: we have NO scrum half. It is nigh-on impossible to organise a cohesive attacking strategy without a single functioning scrum half. We don't even have a RESERVE scrum half.

Undoubtedly the lack of an on-field leader is an issue; we're making some wrong decisions at crucial times which we wouldn't be doing if we had a genuine and experienced half-back. But I get the feeling that you could put Andrew Johns in the side and we'd still be one-dimensional - running good angles off the ball and giving the halves options should be second nature to these players, but it looks like an aspect of their game that has been sorely neglected.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Administrator25122No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 05 200123 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
13th Jul 17 01:3911th May 17 20:59LINK
Milestone Posts
25000
30000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Aleph Green

Re: Royce Out ! : Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:46 am  
Webbo wrote:
The change I'd make is that, now Lance is more familiar with the team, he should play at No7. He's an experienced player and should be given the role of organiser-in-chief.


Hallelujah! When will the penny finally drop with everyone else?
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 93 guests

REPLY

Subject: 
Message:
   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.
Use the FULL EDITOR to better format content or upload images, be notified of replies etc...

Return to St. Helens


RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
53m
IN 2025 Jake Connor - Expires 2026
HucknallLoin
22
Recent
TV Games - Not Hull
Yippee try y
3019
Recent
Film game
karetaker
4281
Recent
5 hours
CobraCraig
3
Recent
Transfer Talk V5
ArthurClues
104
Recent
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champions Again in 2024
CobraCraig
8
Recent
FRENCH
moto748
39
Recent
TV games not Wire
Wires71
3617
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
52s
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champions Again in 2024
rollin thund
2
54s
SL Grand Final
Scarlet Pimp
5
1m
Hull Kingston Rovers
LeythIg
2
1m
FRENCH
moto748
39
1m
Rumours thread
Scarlet Pimp
2473
1m
Finn out Murrell in
Hudd-Shay
43
1m
SL CHAT THREAD OTHER TEAMS GAMES
tad rhino
162
1m
Wakefield Trinity Hear the Roar
Trojan Horse
6
2m
IN 2025 Jake Connor - Expires 2026
HucknallLoin
22
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
5 hours
CobraCraig
3
TODAY
Harry Smith
Father Ted
3
TODAY
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champions Again in 2024
rollin thund
2
TODAY
New signings
Hangerman2
2
TODAY
OTish betting on the championship
Bull Mania
2
TODAY
Championship Promotion Final
GeoffRoebuck
1
TODAY
Hull Kingston Rovers
LeythIg
2
TODAY
Wakefield Trinity Hear the Roar
Trojan Horse
6
TODAY
SL Grand Final
Scarlet Pimp
5
TODAY
Spirit of the Rhinos documentary
christopher
1
TODAY
Grand Final
matt_wire
5
TODAY
Terrace wear
retrosports
3
TODAY
OT Rohan Smith -
Trebor1
3
TODAY
Alfie johnson CONFIRMED 2 year deal
Smiffy27
16
TODAY
Brian Lockwood RIP
1315trinity
6
TODAY
Grand Final Squad
NickyKiss
16
TODAY
Kit for Saturday
Pie Eyed
8
TODAY
George Hirst
Cruncher
22
TODAY
Player of the Season 2024
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
Released Players List
Jemmo
4
TODAY
IN 2025 Jake Connor - Expires 2026
HucknallLoin
22
TODAY
Has anyone got any idea what is going on
Benny Profan
29
TODAY
Awards
The Avenger
11
TODAY
dan russell confirmed 2 year contract
Wires71
13
TODAY
Play-off Semi Final Toulouse A
Pyrah123
24
TODAY
2025 Catalans Dragons Kit
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
Oli Leyland confirmed 2 year deal
ninearches
17
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
125
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
673
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
801
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
576
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
694
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
714
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
1092
Leigh Leopards Make Play Off P..
1170
Catalans Dragons Finish Sevent..
1541
Hull KR Secure Second With Vic..
1677
Wigan Seal League Leaders Trop..
1473
Wakefield Trinity Sweep Aside ..
1827
Catalans Keep Season Alive Wit..
1649
Salford Ensure Play-Offs And S..
1883
Ruthless Wigan Thrash the Rhin..
2160
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Sun 13th Oct
CH
19:30
Swinton-Hunslet
Sun 27th Oct
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Sat 2nd Nov
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Sat 12th Oct
SL 30 Hull KR2-9Wigan
Sun 6th Oct
L1 26 Keighley6-20Hunslet
CH 29 Bradford25-12Featherstone
WSL2024 16 York V18-8St.HelensW
NRL 31 Melbourne6-14Penrith
Sat 5th Oct
CH 29 York27-10Widnes
SL 29 Wigan38-0Leigh
Fri 4th Oct
SL 29 Hull KR10-8Warrington
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 26 1010 262 748 50
Bradford 27 703 399 304 36
Toulouse 25 744 368 376 35
York 28 682 479 203 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Swinton 27 474 670 -196 18
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 0 0 0 0 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
53m
IN 2025 Jake Connor - Expires 2026
HucknallLoin
22
Recent
TV Games - Not Hull
Yippee try y
3019
Recent
Film game
karetaker
4281
Recent
5 hours
CobraCraig
3
Recent
Transfer Talk V5
ArthurClues
104
Recent
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champions Again in 2024
CobraCraig
8
Recent
FRENCH
moto748
39
Recent
TV games not Wire
Wires71
3617
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
52s
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champions Again in 2024
rollin thund
2
54s
SL Grand Final
Scarlet Pimp
5
1m
Hull Kingston Rovers
LeythIg
2
1m
FRENCH
moto748
39
1m
Rumours thread
Scarlet Pimp
2473
1m
Finn out Murrell in
Hudd-Shay
43
1m
SL CHAT THREAD OTHER TEAMS GAMES
tad rhino
162
1m
Wakefield Trinity Hear the Roar
Trojan Horse
6
2m
IN 2025 Jake Connor - Expires 2026
HucknallLoin
22
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
5 hours
CobraCraig
3
TODAY
Harry Smith
Father Ted
3
TODAY
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champions Again in 2024
rollin thund
2
TODAY
New signings
Hangerman2
2
TODAY
OTish betting on the championship
Bull Mania
2
TODAY
Championship Promotion Final
GeoffRoebuck
1
TODAY
Hull Kingston Rovers
LeythIg
2
TODAY
Wakefield Trinity Hear the Roar
Trojan Horse
6
TODAY
SL Grand Final
Scarlet Pimp
5
TODAY
Spirit of the Rhinos documentary
christopher
1
TODAY
Grand Final
matt_wire
5
TODAY
Terrace wear
retrosports
3
TODAY
OT Rohan Smith -
Trebor1
3
TODAY
Alfie johnson CONFIRMED 2 year deal
Smiffy27
16
TODAY
Brian Lockwood RIP
1315trinity
6
TODAY
Grand Final Squad
NickyKiss
16
TODAY
Kit for Saturday
Pie Eyed
8
TODAY
George Hirst
Cruncher
22
TODAY
Player of the Season 2024
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
Released Players List
Jemmo
4
TODAY
IN 2025 Jake Connor - Expires 2026
HucknallLoin
22
TODAY
Has anyone got any idea what is going on
Benny Profan
29
TODAY
Awards
The Avenger
11
TODAY
dan russell confirmed 2 year contract
Wires71
13
TODAY
Play-off Semi Final Toulouse A
Pyrah123
24
TODAY
2025 Catalans Dragons Kit
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
Oli Leyland confirmed 2 year deal
ninearches
17
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
125
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
673
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
801
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
576
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
694
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
714
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
1092
Leigh Leopards Make Play Off P..
1170
Catalans Dragons Finish Sevent..
1541
Hull KR Secure Second With Vic..
1677
Wigan Seal League Leaders Trop..
1473
Wakefield Trinity Sweep Aside ..
1827
Catalans Keep Season Alive Wit..
1649
Salford Ensure Play-Offs And S..
1883
Ruthless Wigan Thrash the Rhin..
2160


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!