Re: Hull KR Match Thread : Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:26 pm  

Tiptop Saint wrote:

Is Gaskell definitely back next week and what was he out with?

Leg strain, should be fine for Friday as long as there's no set backs.

Re: Hull KR Match Thread : Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:36 pm  

...and so the kneejerking begins... Give it a couple of losses over the next few weeks and the annual calls from the clueless masses to sign up a bunch of amateurs to "at least show some pride in the shirt" will begin to pour out in earnest too. I do enjoy reading those...

Frankly the season is going exactly to plan so far in the greater scheme of things - we're playing to a fraction of our potential, rotating a few players (at least I hope that's why Wheeler was left out), grinding out a few results and getting more wins than losses overall, and not picking up too many injuries along the way - exactly what is necessary at this point in the season. If we're labouring like this still come August then we can all start to panic. Until then, just get a bleedin' grip some of you...

Re: Hull KR Match Thread : Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:41 pm  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

...and so the kneejerking begins... Give it a couple of losses over the next few weeks and the annual calls from the clueless masses to sign up a bunch of amateurs to "at least show some pride in the shirt" will begin to pour out in earnest too. I do enjoy reading those...

Frankly the season is going exactly to plan so far in the greater scheme of things - we're playing to a fraction of our potential, rotating a few players (at least I hope that's why Wheeler was left out), grinding out a few results and getting more wins than losses overall, and not picking up too many injuries along the way - exactly what is necessary at this point in the season. If we're labouring like this still come August then we can all start to panic. Until then, just get a bleedin' grip some of you...

Wheeler wasn't left out due to rotation apparently, he was just left out. The only thing I have a problem with at this stage in the season is selection. I said earlier I was worried about the team as we have looked very poor so far, but also went on to say we may be starting slowly, the next 6 or 7 games will be a good indication of how our season will go.

Re: Hull KR Match Thread : Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:05 am  

Don't normally post on here but I go to every game home and away and after going today I wanted to share my views on todays game.

It was and this is no exaggeration the worst defensive performance I've seen saints put in for a good while. The tackling technique was non-existant, which caused us to lose the collision, which then resulted in us being put on the backfoot time and time again. It's something that has become more and more apparent as each game goes by. One on one tackles being missed, lack of communication and basic tackling technique just appears to be missing - which was highlighted today. It was so frustrating to know that whenever Hull KR got within 20 yards of our line they were going to score!! Champion teams should have a pride in defending their line, they defend it as though their lives depend on it and at no time today was that in evidence and hasn't been for some time.

Attacking wise we weren't to bad. The first 20 minutes we played really well with ball in hand. We looked confident and looked potent when attacking the defensive line with options aplenty, but their forwards took control of ours and I can't remember us completing a set after the first 20 mins. But credit to Hull KR they just starved us of possession and capitalised on our mistakes. Great to see Shenton back and thought Soliola played well again and Lomax wasn't to bad. We miss Gaskell when he doesn't play though due to his kicking in general play. Lomax is no kicker - he needs someone to take the responsibilty off him and control that part of the game. This is why Gaskell and Lomax work so well together, they compliment each others strengths.

Now in regards to some of the players as individuals. I really hope we don't use Lance Hohaia at 6 for the 4 years he is with us. It's the first time he as played 6 competitively for us this season and in my opinion he didn't cover himself in much glory, which resulted in him being taken off for Wheeler. Maybe people will disagree but if he is to play anywhere then it has to be full back, it's the onlt position at present I can see him fitting in (even though I'd have Makinson there for the next 10 years). Gaskell, Wheeler and Lomax should form our 6 and 7 partnership for the foresable future - they have earned the chance after their performances last year. The recruitment of Hohaia felt like and still feels like a panic buy. After the Eastmond saga last year it felt like the club were trying to create a postive spin on all the problems we were going through at the time, with no real idea as to where Hohaia was going to play. I suppose none of us expected Lomax and Gaskell to perform to the level they did but now we are left with a real problem. At the end of the day Hohaia has to play as he has been signed as a marquee player, but the big question is where?

Another problem area that we have to sort is Wellens. The guy is a legend of our club and I don't care what anyone says he was a top full back - regardless of his lack of pace. His positioning, organisation and all round contribution to the team from full back over the years has been first class. But as with everything in life it never lasts and we have to move on. The modern day full back needs speed.... end of story and with every game Wellens plays the lack of speed is highlighted. Like today for example..... Craig Hall kicks through for a kick and chase and Wellens just didn't have the speed not only to deal with it but to have any chance of dealing with it. I love Wellens as does every other Saints fan but if we are serious about becoming a champion side once again then we have to part with him.....hard as that is to say. We have in my opinion a ready made replacement in Tommy Makinson ready to take over. He is as commanding under the high ball as Wellens is and is probably the fastest player in the Saints ranks at present - to me it just makes sense.

The forwards as a whole haven't impressed me this season either. We don't have what you would call as out and out prop forwards. 2006 we had the pack - Graham, Anderson, Cayless, Wilkin, Sculthorpe, Fozzard, Maurie. Each one had a role and they knew what it was. Our current pack doesn't have the aggression or the go forward that the '06 one had. Maybe I'm being harsh as they are new players settling into a new team and environment, but at the end of the day whether you are playing in Austraila or England or for whatever club you play at the same principle applies as a forward. Run hard and tackle with aggression and I don't see that in the games I've watched this season.

My post probably reads as a little negative given that we are undefeated and are second in the table. But from the posts I've read and Royce's comment after the game it seems like we are all unamimous that it's not all as positive as our league position should proclaim. The good thing is there is plenty of room for improvement and I don't think we well defend as bad as that again (or at least I hope we don't).

Re: Hull KR Match Thread : Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:11 am  

"Was it our strongest side? Well that's debatable. I'll decide on that when I look at the video. Paul Clough, Tommy Makinson, Shaun Magennis didn't play and we had the luxury of leaving a couple out, but yes it was a good side.

"A point gained or lost? At the end of the day we let in 36 points so I don't care too much about the one point really. I want to fix the 36 points up."


A telling statement from the coach. He is one unhappy bunny.

Re: Hull KR Match Thread : Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:09 am  

Man of Steel wrote:

Don't normally post on here but I go to every game home and away and after going today I wanted to share my views on todays game.

It was and this is no exaggeration the worst defensive performance I've seen saints put in for a good while. The tackling technique was non-existant, which caused us to lose the collision, which then resulted in us being put on the backfoot time and time again. It's something that has become more and more apparent as each game goes by. One on one tackles being missed, lack of communication and basic tackling technique just appears to be missing - which was highlighted today. It was so frustrating to know that whenever Hull KR got within 20 yards of our line they were going to score!! Champion teams should have a pride in defending their line, they defend it as though their lives depend on it and at no time today was that in evidence and hasn't been for some time.

Attacking wise we weren't to bad. The first 20 minutes we played really well with ball in hand. We looked confident and looked potent when attacking the defensive line with options aplenty, but their forwards took control of ours and I can't remember us completing a set after the first 20 mins. But credit to Hull KR they just starved us of possession and capitalised on our mistakes. Great to see Shenton back and thought Soliola played well again and Lomax wasn't to bad. We miss Gaskell when he doesn't play though due to his kicking in general play. Lomax is no kicker - he needs someone to take the responsibilty off him and control that part of the game. This is why Gaskell and Lomax work so well together, they compliment each others strengths.

Now in regards to some of the players as individuals. I really hope we don't use Lance Hohaia at 6 for the 4 years he is with us. It's the first time he as played 6 competitively for us this season and in my opinion he didn't cover himself in much glory, which resulted in him being taken off for Wheeler. Maybe people will disagree but if he is to play anywhere then it has to be full back, it's the onlt position at present I can see him fitting in (even though I'd have Makinson there for the next 10 years). Gaskell, Wheeler and Lomax should form our 6 and 7 partnership for the foresable future - they have earned the chance after their performances last year. The recruitment of Hohaia felt like and still feels like a panic buy. After the Eastmond saga last year it felt like the club were trying to create a postive spin on all the problems we were going through at the time, with no real idea as to where Hohaia was going to play. I suppose none of us expected Lomax and Gaskell to perform to the level they did but now we are left with a real problem. At the end of the day Hohaia has to play as he has been signed as a marquee player, but the big question is where?

Another problem area that we have to sort is Wellens. The guy is a legend of our club and I don't care what anyone says he was a top full back - regardless of his lack of pace. His positioning, organisation and all round contribution to the team from full back over the years has been first class. But as with everything in life it never lasts and we have to move on. The modern day full back needs speed.... end of story and with every game Wellens plays the lack of speed is highlighted. Like today for example..... Craig Hall kicks through for a kick and chase and Wellens just didn't have the speed not only to deal with it but to have any chance of dealing with it. I love Wellens as does every other Saints fan but if we are serious about becoming a champion side once again then we have to part with him.....hard as that is to say. We have in my opinion a ready made replacement in Tommy Makinson ready to take over. He is as commanding under the high ball as Wellens is and is probably the fastest player in the Saints ranks at present - to me it just makes sense.

The forwards as a whole haven't impressed me this season either. We don't have what you would call as out and out prop forwards. 2006 we had the pack - Graham, Anderson, Cayless, Wilkin, Sculthorpe, Fozzard, Maurie. Each one had a role and they knew what it was. Our current pack doesn't have the aggression or the go forward that the '06 one had. Maybe I'm being harsh as they are new players settling into a new team and environment, but at the end of the day whether you are playing in Austraila or England or for whatever club you play at the same principle applies as a forward. Run hard and tackle with aggression and I don't see that in the games I've watched this season.

My post probably reads as a little negative given that we are undefeated and are second in the table. But from the posts I've read and Royce's comment after the game it seems like we are all unamimous that it's not all as positive as our league position should proclaim. The good thing is there is plenty of room for improvement and I don't think we well defend as bad as that again (or at least I hope we don't).

Very very good post and I totally agree with everything in your post. You should post more often.

Re: Hull KR Match Thread : Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:14 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

"Was it our strongest side? Well that's debatable. I'll decide on that when I look at the video. Paul Clough, Tommy Makinson, Shaun Magennis didn't play and we had the luxury of leaving a couple out, but yes it was a good side.

"A point gained or lost? At the end of the day we let in 36 points so I don't care too much about the one point really. I want to fix the 36 points up."


A telling statement from the coach. He is one unhappy bunny.

This rotation thing he's doing every week is something else I don't agree with, I'm all for giving players rests but lets be honest, makinson don't need a rest, he's 20yrs old, only played two games this year! Clough hardly played last year and is a young guy so he do t need resting.

I'm sorry but this is another thing I don't agree with that Royce is doing.


How can a coach who plays with 16 most weeks while players are out on their feet then say he needs to rest players? I flogged sia, jammer and roby last year while we had someone sat on the bench for 80 mins!

Re: Hull KR Match Thread : Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:46 am  

St pete wrote:

This rotation thing he's doing every week is something else I don't agree with, I'm all for giving players rests but lets be honest, makinson don't need a rest, he's 20yrs old, only played two games this year! Clough hardly played last year and is a young guy so he do t need resting.

I'm sorry but this is another thing I don't agree with that Royce is doing.


How can a coach who plays with 16 most weeks while players are out on their feet then say he needs to rest players? I flogged sia, jammer and roby last year while we had someone sat on the bench for 80 mins!

Is he resting players?

Or is he giving everyone in the squad (who are likely to be a regular first teamer) a chance to get up to match speed and stake a claim for a spot?

Re: Hull KR Match Thread : Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:34 am  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

...and so the kneejerking begins... Give it a couple of losses over the next few weeks and the annual calls from the clueless masses to sign up a bunch of amateurs to "at least show some pride in the shirt" will begin to pour out in earnest too. I do enjoy reading those...

Frankly the season is going exactly to plan so far in the greater scheme of things - we're playing to a fraction of our potential, rotating a few players (at least I hope that's why Wheeler was left out), grinding out a few results and getting more wins than losses overall, and not picking up too many injuries along the way - exactly what is necessary at this point in the season. If we're labouring like this still come August then we can all start to panic. Until then, just get a bleedin' grip some of you...

So everyone with a differant opinion to yours is clueless

People pay there money and are entitled to there opinion, that display yesterday defensively was abysmall and requires slating.

Re: Hull KR Match Thread : Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:16 pm  

I think a lot our defensive problems stem from the scrum half position. A good half isn't only the playmaker and place kicker - he also sets the defensive pattern and controls the line.

Too many people are confusing Lomax's - admittedly good - attacking performances at scrum half with being a good scrum half.