Re: THE Derby : Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:16 pm  

nohalfbacks wrote:

I didn't think Saints were a good team last year but they won the GF and won it without recognised halves that would trouble big teams! At this point in the season Wigan are not playing as well as last year for sure but they will certainly improve. The question is by how much and only time will tell? I also think that you need to factor in the fact that Saints are defending much better than last year. Wigan found it very difficult to break their defence down yesterday. Wigan's attack is not as fluent as last year yet but a good defence stops a good attack! Also Wigan's defence was good yesterday and so don't assume that if Saints had their recognised halves that the result would have been different. Maybe later in the season when both teams have players back then some of these questions will be answered.

Apart from the ifs buts and maybes, yesterday's game was a good tough game of rugby that could have gone either way. Isn't that want we all want to see and is what will keep species coming through the turnstiles?

I took a friend to the game who supports Gloucester RU and he really enjoyed the contest, intensity and atmosphere. He said that watching RL live he appreciated how tough, fit and skillful the players are.

If Saints ever get a full strength side out on the pitch against Wigan or anyone in SL, they will take them apart. Just having Walsh and Burns on the pitch on Friday would have decimated that Wigan defence.

Re: THE Derby : Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:22 pm  

Twentyman wrote:

If Saints ever get a full strength side out on the pitch against Wigan or anyone in SL, they will take them apart. Just having Walsh and Burns on the pitch on Friday would have decimated that Wigan defence.

If Saints had a full squad available, then there'd be no point playing the season - just give both trophies to us now. We wouldn't lose anywhere, such is the strength in the forwards.

Even having a fit Walsh and Burns will see us win the league. They can leave Percival, Lomax and Vea in the stands. We'd still win it.

Re: THE Derby : Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:42 pm  

The Chief wrote:

On the issue of the offsides and charge down, here is the pic of the Wigan defensive line at the play the ball just before the charge down. Mossop (red) got to Turner, Manfredi (yellow) scored the try. They were both clearly infront of the ref (blue) and nobody on the commentary team picked up on it. More worryingly, alarm bells didn't ring with Bentham when a prop isn't at marker but manages to charge down a kicker.

Line drawn in line with the ptb (37/38m) and another 10 metres from it (47/48m). Note the ball is already in the hands of the dummy half by this point so the defence have set off with their first step. Likewise Phil Bentham has evidently started moving backwards anticipating the kick. Mossop (2nd man right of Bentham) looks onside for me, we can see he's moving so would have been a fraction further back when the foot touched the ball. Manfredi (furthest man to the right of Bentham) is nearly 20 metres back from the ptb! In fact the only players I'd say would definitely have been offside there when the foot touched the ball are Farrell (on the floor behind the ptb) and Williams (2nd man on the left of Bentham) but neither gets involved. BTW the yellow arrow on your screen is actually pointing at Gelling not Manfredi.

Re: THE Derby : Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:11 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

Line drawn in line with the ptb (37/38m) and another 10 metres from it (47/48m). Note the ball is already in the hands of the dummy half by this point so the defence have set off with their first step. Likewise Phil Bentham has evidently started moving backwards anticipating the kick. Mossop (2nd man right of Bentham) looks onside for me, we can see he's moving so would have been a fraction further back when the foot touched the ball. Manfredi (furthest man to the right of Bentham) is nearly 20 metres back from the ptb! In fact the only players I'd say would definitely have been offside there when the foot touched the ball are Farrell (on the floor behind the ptb) and Williams (2nd man on the left of Bentham) but neither gets involved. BTW the yellow arrow on your screen is actually pointing at Gelling not Manfredi.

Second player left of Bentham (Williams) is WAY offside he,s half way between the marker and the referee, should have been penalty but Bentham must have turned a blind eye.

On the pic, Turner looks plenty deep enough for the kick, I,m assuming it was a slow pass getting to him or taking too much time executing the kick.

Re: THE Derby : Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:38 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

Second player left of Bentham (Williams) is WAY offside he,s half way between the marker and the referee, should have been penalty but Bentham must have turned a blind eye.

On the pic, Turner looks plenty deep enough for the kick, I,m assuming it was a slow pass getting to him or taking too much time executing the kick.

Williams didn't get involved as Saints passed left. Despite his body positioning on this frame he actually stands still whilst the rest of the line moves up, presumably anticipating running downfield after the ball is kicked. The error comes because Hohaia gets the pass and wastes time with a poor dummy to Thompson which the defence didn't buy at all. Turner gets the ball with about 7 metres between him and Mossop, who has had three seconds to build up some speed. There are no blockers and Turner doesn't have the presence of mind to step (a centre should be able to shimmy round a prop, and there was plenty space either side of him) or just take the tackle (it was 4th). Instead he takes a two or three steps forward in taking his kick, by which time Mossop is right on top of him.

Re: THE Derby : Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:49 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

Williams didn't get involved as Saints passed left.

Can you definitively say Saints wouldn't of gone left if Williams hadn't of been in that position? No? Involved then. We've been stung by the exact same logic recently.

Re: THE Derby : Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:00 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

Williams didn't get involved as Saints passed left.

I don,t think it really matters offside is offside, ALL players except the marker have to be inline with the referee at the play the ball and not 4 or 5 metres in front.

Re: THE Derby : Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:01 pm  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

Can you definitively say Saints wouldn't of gone left if Williams hadn't of been in that position? No? Involved then. We've been stung by the exact same logic recently.

You should have done, he would have had to let you go past him or get penalised

Re: THE Derby : Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:05 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

You should have done, he would have had to let you go past him or get penalised

Who gives a poop ? You carry on dissecting your hollow victory against the current champions of the country, we'll see you later in the season when we aren't decimated by injury upon injury.

Re: THE Derby : Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:13 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

You should have done, he would have had to let you go past him or get penalised

Roby/ Cunningham running at offside players has never been as penalised as it should. In fact looking at the photo again, Williams moves up too quickly to protect an overlap and should of been penalised regardless. Anyway as said, moving on