Re: Half back situation : Thu May 17, 2012 6:57 pm  

Famous wrote:

I thought Lomax was awful for you. He blew so many overlaps by choosing the wrong pass or by going himself. He is very overated and is never a half back. Stick him at full back, with Wheeler/Hohia and Gaskell at half back and you would be much more threatening in attack imo.

This.

We've not had a decent half back since Long left. Eastmond was supposed to step into his shoes although I believe he was never in the same league. Lomax was supposed to be a temporary fix and somehow he's kept his place and I've no idea why? He's a fullback,winger...maybe even centre but he isn't a half back. And it was so frustrating the amount of times he came out of the line against Wigan. That cost us. For some reason the club have decided to paper over the half back cracks and ignore the fact we need a 'specialist' scrum half, not a quick fix it.

And just to add, I don't think Saints lack quality, they lack leadership. Wellens is all on his own. It's a very quiet team. There's nobody to drive the team on, who inspires his team...in the past there's always been a few players who the fans can channel their passion through. A Long, Scully, Cunningham, Martyn etc Who fights through adversity, who puts an arm around the young lads.

Like I said, there's quality but they're rudderless. That said, I'll always believe they can do it no matter where we are in the table.

Apologies for the rant.

Re: Half back situation : Thu May 17, 2012 7:41 pm  

DaveTwentyman wrote:

This.

We've not had a decent half back since Long left. Eastmond was supposed to step into his shoes although I believe he was never in the same league. Lomax was supposed to be a temporary fix and somehow he's kept his place and I've no idea why? He's a fullback,winger...maybe even centre but he isn't a half back. And it was so frustrating the amount of times he came out of the line against Wigan. That cost us. For some reason the club have decided to paper over the half back cracks and ignore the fact we need a 'specialist' scrum half, not a quick fix it.

And just to add, I don't think Saints lack quality, they lack leadership. Wellens is all on his own. It's a very quiet team. There's nobody to drive the team on, who inspires his team...in the past there's always been a few players who the fans can channel their passion through. A Long, Scully, Cunningham, Martyn etc Who fights through adversity, who puts an arm around the young lads.

Like I said, there's quality but they're rudderless. That said, I'll always believe they can do it no matter where we are in the table.

Apologies for the rant.

thats a good rant, and true as well!

Re: Half back situation : Thu May 17, 2012 8:38 pm  

DaveTwentyman wrote:

Lomax was supposed to be a temporary fix and somehow he's kept his place and I've no idea why? He's a fullback,winger...maybe even centre but he isn't a half back.

Lomax has played no.6 throughout his rugby career. Rush has been quoted as saying that all his coaches have stated he has been their best player within his cohort.

Lomax is definitely a halfback but which one? Simmons was quoted last season as saying he wasn't ready for international honours but hey-ho he was promoted from the Knights to the England team anyway. He hasn't yet had a full season in the scrum half jersey and I would like to know what Longy was like after less than a season in that position? My guess is he wasn't setting the world alight.

Lomax needs continued coaching, he needs support, he needs time and he needs an experienced halfback partner who is actually going to help him rather than hinder him.

Re: Half back situation : Thu May 17, 2012 8:49 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

I would like to know what Longy was like after less than a season in that position? My guess is he wasn't setting the world alight.

How old are you?
You must remember it was only 14 yrs ago and he was pretty average tbh, but he was working with Tommy God so he couldnt have had a better HB teacher

Re: Half back situation : Fri May 18, 2012 12:12 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

Lomax has played no.6 throughout his rugby career. Rush has been quoted as saying that all his coaches have stated he has been their best player within his cohort.

Lomax is definitely a halfback but which one? Simmons was quoted last season as saying he wasn't ready for international honours but hey-ho he was promoted from the Knights to the England team anyway. He hasn't yet had a full season in the scrum half jersey and I would like to know what Longy was like after less than a season in that position? My guess is he wasn't setting the world alight.

Lomax needs continued coaching, he needs support, he needs time and he needs an experienced halfback partner who is actually going to help him rather than hinder him.

Ok, maybe he's a number 6 then...but he's not a scrum half. He was a makeweight. As talented as the lad is, he was just meant to be covering and now it's like everyone's accepted it.
To top it off he's got no leaders around him, he's trying to win games on his own, in defence as well as attack.

Look at the current top sides in Super League. Wigan have got Finch, Huddersfield- Brough and Robinson, Leeds- Burrow, Hull- Seymour/Horne/Ellis, Warrington- Myler/Monaghan/O'Brien....Hull KR have got Dobson, Bradford- Gale/Sammut, Catalans- Dureau

And what have we got, a stand off playing scrum half and Lee Gaskell. Putting head before heart...would Lomax get in at number 7 at the above teams? Would Gaskell?

There's no point having a big flashy, fancy ship if no bugger is steering it and that reflects in our current league position. I don't want us to just get by, Saints is a big club and they should have a specialist scrum half.

Re: Half back situation : Fri May 18, 2012 5:13 am  

DaveTwentyman wrote:

Ok, maybe he's a number 6 then....

and there lies the problem. Lomax is a good player, but he's not a 6 or 7. Is he a 1,9,13,2-5? No one knows. He is in tge team because he is clearly a dangerous player, but the team is suffering from having him there, because he doesn't add to tge team game as a whole. What he possesses in skill is negated by what he lacks in distribution, kicking and organisation. Jonny has more potential than a player like brough, but brough would bring far more to the team. I think he needs a spell in the reserves to work out where he should be playing.

Re: Half back situation : Fri May 18, 2012 6:35 am  

SomersetSaint wrote:

Lomax is a good player, but he's not a 6 or 7.

I'm not ready to write off Lomax as a half yet, far too early IMO. He has a lot to learn, granted, but I still have very high hopes for him in the halves given time.

The problem we have is he is learning his trade in the spotlight as we don't have another proven half to play alongside him, so his (current) shortcomings are more obvious.

Re: Half back situation : Fri May 18, 2012 7:30 am  

SomersetSaint wrote:

brough would bring far more to the team.

He certainly would.

As we all know, the scrum half is like the key to making the engine work. He doesn't necessarily have to have lightning pace and an eye for a gap. It's his job to guide the team around the pitch by making the right decisions for the team through distributing the ball through hands or making the right kick on the last tackle....we haven't got that.

Just to add I don't want to sound like I'm bashing Lomax. The lad is top drawer and he's playing where he's told to play. He's got the stature of a scrum half, great speed, excellent at taking on the line...I sometimes wonder what would have happened if Sam Tomkins had come through the ranks at Saints instead of Wigan. I don't believe we'd have played him at full back. We wouldn't dare shift Wellens. We'd have done what we've done with Lomax and played him at scrum half, and stifled his development. And hoped his kicking game came on. Lomax would be amazing at full back.

Re: Half back situation : Fri May 18, 2012 8:35 am  

Saint Simon wrote:

...but he was working with Tommy God so he couldnt have had a better HB teacher

There we go! Bang on!

The only variable from the last half of last season (when we were actually playing some decent stuff) is that Hohaia has been introduced to the 'spine' of the team.

Hohaia (mostly) is the problem here as Lomax was doing well in the #7 shirt last season.

Re: Half back situation : Fri May 18, 2012 9:05 am  

Albion wrote:

There we go! Bang on!

The only variable from the last half of last season (when we were actually playing some decent stuff) is that Hohaia has been introduced to the 'spine' of the team.

Hohaia (mostly) is the problem here as Lomax was doing well in the #7 shirt last season.

I have to say that I only partly agree with this. Lance cannot be blamed for the lack of half back options for the first part of the season, Gaskell was his partner then. Lomax started playing better when Hohaia was moved to stand off for the Leeds game. We started to see the best of him while Lance was first moved to stand off. Maybe that is as much to do with ' A change is as good as a rest '. What has happened is that Lance hasn't got any better at stand off with more games as many would have expected. The Initial change effect has worn off and Lomax is finding that he has to do most of the organising and playmaking ( Not his natural game ). What is the answer? I think it may work if we swap Wellens and Lance around. Wello was a junior grade Stand off and unfortunately his diminishing lack of pace can no longer be covered by his excellent positioning and defence. I also think Lance needs the playmaking and kicking responsibilities taken away so he can concentrate on finding some form.

Only a thought!