Re: Spent force : Sat May 19, 2012 7:44 am  

SomersetSaint wrote:

Little bit worrying that we are pinning all our hopes for future success on Nathan Brown, who appears to have no more idea than rush on how to beat the goons

What's more concerning to me is that every time they play a pressure game they bottle it. I hope that is as a result of the players and not the coach.

Re: Spent force : Sat May 19, 2012 8:03 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

What's more concerning to me is that every time they play a pressure game they bottle it. I hope that is as a result of the players and not the coach.

Yes indeedy. He has proven that he can take an average side and make them competitive, he now has a different challenge in taking a good side and turning them into trophy winners, which is an altogether different skill. I suspect that is why he hasn't landed an nrl job yet. Saints will be make or break for his career aspirations. Bring silverware back to saints and any job will be open to him, fail, and Salford beckons.

Re: Spent force : Sat May 19, 2012 8:16 am  

Hudds have beaten Wigan several times under Brown, including this season. I loved some of the inventive stuff they were playing in the first half.

The 'pressure' comment may be valid (although having lost 5 GFs on the spin, we can't really get a lot worse in that respect!) but what Brown has done, in pressure games like semi finals and more generally in the league, is have Giants punch significantly above their weight. If he can get us punching above ours, we have every chance of silverware.

Re: Spent force : Sat May 19, 2012 12:22 pm  

SomersetSaint wrote:

Little bit worrying that we are pinning all our hopes for future success on Nathan Brown, who appears to have no more idea than rush on how to beat the goons

He has less genuine quality at his disposal at Huddersfield than at Saints.

For all we knock Saints the reality is that we gave Wigan a tougher game than Huddersfield did.

Remember that according to many Saints fans, all our players are rubbish and not fit to wear the shirt.

I think we need therefore put things into a bit of perspective.

The reality is that Wigan at present are playing very well as a unit.

We all thought Kong would turn out to be Donkey Kong but at present he looks more like the Great Ape.
Tactically and Motivationally he appears to have a lot going for him. He has made the odd mistake eg:Widnes, but lets remember is learning what it is to be a first team coach. He should therefore only get better as a coach.
That to me is a big worry. If Wayne turns out to be a genuine top line coach then Wigan will be in for a sustained period of success, as he will give them the coaching holy grail of quality and stability.

Re: Spent force : Sat May 19, 2012 12:30 pm  

Brown's working with diamonds that he's polished himself at Huddersfield. If he can turn Crabtree, Robinson, Brown and Brough into fringe internationals he should be able to do something with our kiddies.

Re: Spent force : Sat May 19, 2012 2:18 pm  

Cragganmore Kid wrote:

The 'pressure' comment may be valid (although having lost 5 GFs on the spin, we can't really get a lot worse in that respect!)

But that's the point really isn't it? We want a coach who can kick us one step beyond. I believe Simmons would have done it last season but for the injury to Shenton and the resulting necessity of relying upon our most unreliable player ever, ie Meli, but he's now gone and so my concern is whether Brown can put the fire back into us or whether we are going to go even softer under him, given how Hudds are in those pressure scenarios.

Re: Spent force : Sat May 19, 2012 2:19 pm  

SomersetSaint wrote:

Yes indeedy. He has proven that he can take an average side and make them competitive, he now has a different challenge in taking a good side and turning them into trophy winners, which is an altogether different skill. I suspect that is why he hasn't landed an nrl job yet. Saints will be make or break for his career aspirations. Bring silverware back to saints and any job will be open to him, fail, and Salford beckons.

Agreed.

Re: Spent force : Sat May 19, 2012 4:15 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

But that's the point really isn't it? We want a coach who can kick us one step beyond. I believe Simmons would have done it last season but for the injury to Shenton and the resulting necessity of relying upon our most unreliable player ever, ie Meli, but he's now gone and so my concern is whether Brown can put the fire back into us or whether we are going to go even softer under him, given how Hudds are in those pressure scenarios.

I think the big difference is that in those pressure games, Hudds are generally significantly weaker on paper. Defeat isn't evidence of them bottling it or failing to deal with pressure, it's more likely a case of the better team winning.

Brown clearly has previous on getting a team to perform above their capabilities. That'll do for me.

Re: Spent force : Sat May 19, 2012 11:13 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

He has less genuine quality at his disposal at Huddersfield than at Saints.

For all we knock Saints the reality is that we gave Wigan a tougher game than Huddersfield did.

Remember that according to many Saints fans, all our players are rubbish and not fit to wear the shirt.

I think we need therefore put things into a bit of perspective.

The reality is that Wigan at present are playing very well as a unit.

We all thought Kong would turn out to be Donkey Kong but at present he looks more like the Great Ape.
Tactically and Motivationally he appears to have a lot going for him. He has made the odd mistake eg:Widnes, but lets remember is learning what it is to be a first team coach. He should therefore only get better as a coach.
That to me is a big worry. If Wayne turns out to be a genuine top line coach then Wigan will be in for a sustained period of success, as he will give them the coaching holy grail of quality and stability.

Nice Monkey Metaphore!!!

We've had a week of knocking Saints, but then everything is relative. I think defensively we are pretty decent. We have a few soft bits around the edges, but the team are able to tighten these up even within a match.

We have knocked Saints, but I think everything is relative, most agree that we have players that can attack against lower league teams, through pure strength and professionalism on the back of good play by Roby. That's fair enough. I think the critisism of Saints is related more to our lack of penatration verses Wigan. It exposes deficiencies in the team that Roby and the pack cannot handle alone.

Re: Spent force : Sun May 20, 2012 1:33 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

Nice Monkey Metaphore!!!

We've had a week of knocking Saints, but then everything is relative. I think defensively we are pretty decent. We have a few soft bits around the edges, but the team are able to tighten these up even within a match.

We have knocked Saints, but I think everything is relative, most agree that we have players that can attack against lower league teams, through pure strength and professionalism on the back of good play by Roby. That's fair enough. I think the critisism of Saints is related more to our lack of penatration verses Wigan. It exposes deficiencies in the team that Roby and the pack cannot handle alone.

I agree with much that's been said about the "knockers" they have gone a bit overboard with the criticism of your team, mainly due I think, to the two defeats by Wigan. Fact, I think, the team is not as good as in pass seasons, but in saying that it would be hard to keep to that standard year after year, and when you look at the changes, players in, players out and the mix of the young ones it is a big ask to keep up to past standards. For me the team is in a faults position in the SL, you are better than that, but alot must be down to a lack of self belief (something the oz has tons of) and no matter what is said to the tv cameras, it's what's in your mind that counts. It shows on the field in the big games, you can't expect Roby, (who I don't like to say, but is, the best hooker in the world, bar none) and Paul Wellens, a good player coming to the twilight of his career, to hold the team together. others must take more responsibility for whats happening and, with ideas. In big games sometimes Saints seem lost, they have guts and heart, but the fear of getting it wrong is in the minds of some. Having said that I do think at times Hohaia looks like a lost sheep.. Good luck for the rest of the season, but not too much, after all I am a Pie!.