Re: LMAO - Ade and the kings view on potter : Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:50 pm  

EHW wrote:

i dont think anyone on here would have dropped Gardner and put Lomax in at centre - a position he has never played before or since in his career - when it was obvious that Meli should be centre, with Gardner on the wing.

I presume you mean the grand final team, which was very odd, and it was difficult to understand just were lomax played in that game, despite being named on the wing outside meli. Which I agree was bizarre. Going through the heritage site, he did play Gardner pre playoffs, so I can't recall if he got injured or not?

What did happen though was when foster came into the team he took Gardner's right wing spot, Gardner came back in, with meli in the centre

Re: LMAO - Ade and the kings view on potter : Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:13 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

Long was not fit in 2007 which also had a major impact on the game. In 2008 and 2009 the same pattern eventually emerged, the lack of pace was not rectified.

The 2002 team was a better team.

I 've enjoyed debating it with you and I'm happy to agree to disagree. Save ourselves going around in circles.

Re: LMAO - Ade and the kings view on potter : Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:45 pm  

Sthelens RLFC wrote:

I 've enjoyed debating it with you and I'm happy to agree to disagree. Save ourselves going around in circles.

Lol, ok.

Re: LMAO - Ade and the kings view on potter : Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:50 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

My own view re coaches is that you can tell what they bring to the team by the attitude of the players in DEFENCE.

As such i rate Anderson highly as he made us into a very tough nut to crack.

Similarly if you look at what Mcguire has done at Wigan and what Tony Smith has done with the teams he has coached you always get the BIG D.

When you have players of the quality that Saints do possess then its pretty easy for them to play attacking RL.

Where the coaching comes in is building the iron mentality of fighting for every inch.

I have not seen this from either Potter or Simmons teams.

It was going to be extremely hard to increase the defensive intensity after Anderson though, I don't think Wigan now are more intensive than we were then, they just use different tactics. Smith and McGuire came into teams that didn't defend as well and the improvement is easy to see with those two teams. Our intensity has been slowly dropping ever since Anderson left though, his failings for me were elsewhere.

Simmons teams in particular have been cruely exposed against the superior organisation of Wigan and Wire.
As a result we have found ourselves smashed off the park, before coming back from a late rally, as the opposition takes the foot off the pedal due to knowing they have our number.
Some Saints fans then have fallen for this thinking it shows we are in the games, but the reality is that its no different than when we play lower standard teams, get up a big lead and then end up winning a match 40-20 with most of our points being scored in the first half.

Fully agree with this.

Re: LMAO - Ade and the kings view on potter : Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:00 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

Simmons teams in particular have been cruely exposed against the superior organisation of Wigan and Wire.
As a result we have found ourselves smashed off the park, before coming back from a late rally, as the opposition takes the foot off the pedal due to knowing they have our number.
Some Saints fans then have fallen for this thinking it shows we are in the games, but the reality is that its no different than when we play lower standard teams, get up a big lead and then end up winning a match 40-20 with most of our points being scored in the first half.

ok I'llake this one on.

Smashed off the park. Really? We have played wigan four times this year and Wigan blew us off the park in one game. The other three where more competitve than you give us credit for. DW we were even leading.

Warrington we have played twice and been shashed once. In terms of the last game against wire they hit the lead but our come back was way beofre half time and which can hardly be put down to the foot being taken off the pedal. There was some good attacking play to score those tries.

I would not argue we are as consistently good as either wire or wigan. but neither do i subscribe to us being light years behind them. We are there or there abouts and I see no reason why we will not improve next year. Judging coaches seams to have got more and more short term.

Milward was a spent force after five years. Anderson had peaked after three. Potter after two and simmons is being replaced before his first season is over.

For me that way lies the way off wigan and there years of merry go round coaches and not being a force as a team. Simmons may not be the next great coach but he should at least be able to have a run in the playoffs.

Re: LMAO - Ade and the kings view on potter : Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:19 pm  

bewareshadows wrote: ok I'llake this one on. Smashed off the park. Really? We have played wigan four times this year and Wigan blew us off the park in one game. The other three where more competitve than you give us credit for. DW we were even leading. Warrington we have played twice and been shashed once. In terms of the last game against wire they hit the lead but our come back was way beofre half time and which can hardly be put down to the foot being taken off the pedal. There was some good attacking play to score those tries. I would not argue we are as consistently good as either wire or wigan. but neither do i subscribe to us being light years behind them. We are there or there abouts and I see no reason why we will not improve next year. Judging coaches seams to have got more and more short term. Milward was a spent force after five years. Anderson had peaked after three. Potter after two and simmons is being replaced before his first season is over. For me that way lies the way off wigan and there years of merry go round coaches and not being a force as a team. Simmons may not be the next great coach but he should at least be able to have a run in the playoffs. Did you know that out of the top four we have the worst record against teams in the top four and also against teams in the play offs? Huddersfield have a better record than us in the same circumstances. Head-to-head records included here.

bewareshadows wrote: ok I'llake this one on. Smashed off the park. Really? We have played wigan four times this year and Wigan blew us off the park in one game. The other three where more competitve than you give us credit for. DW we were even leading. Warrington we have played twice and been shashed once. In terms of the last game against wire they hit the lead but our come back was way beofre half time and which can hardly be put down to the foot being taken off the pedal. There was some good attacking play to score those tries. I would not argue we are as consistently good as either wire or wigan. but neither do i subscribe to us being light years behind them. We are there or there abouts and I see no reason why we will not improve next year. Judging coaches seams to have got more and more short term. Milward was a spent force after five years. Anderson had peaked after three. Potter after two and simmons is being replaced before his first season is over. For me that way lies the way off wigan and there years of merry go round coaches and not being a force as a team. Simmons may not be the next great coach but he should at least be able to have a run in the playoffs. Did you know that out of the top four we have the worst record against teams in the top four and also against teams in the play offs? Huddersfield have a better record than us in the same circumstances. Head-to-head records included here.

Re: LMAO - Ade and the kings view on potter : Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:22 pm  

I understand we could go ifs and buts over everything.. but in two of those games, we really could've been murdered.

Had wire scored at 18 0 when they bombed a certain try, and had Joel Tomkins not had an absolute brainfart in the semi, it could've been two hammerings.

That said we deserve credit for our fightbacks in those games, and the magic game. The other two we were comfortably beaten

Re: LMAO - Ade and the kings view on potter : Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:31 pm  

I just find it hard to bag a coach beforee his first season is even over. The previous coaches fair enough. But I do think simmons has had it tougher than the rest on so a like for like comparison is tricky. ie Eastmond and Pryce v Lomax And Gaskell. Gidley v shenton. etc

Re: LMAO - Ade and the kings view on potter : Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:50 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

I just find it hard to bag a coach beforee his first season is even over.

That's fair enough and I've unusually been a bit guilty of that this season. However, I would want him to see out his contract because there have been lots of factors which have impacted on team performance this year, not least the moving to Widnes. I don't think you can underestimate how big an impact the instability and lack of a home can have on individual and team performance. Besides with Shaun Wane in charge next year we won't have to perform that much better to win

Re: LMAO - Ade and the kings view on potter : Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:02 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

I just find it hard to bag a coach beforee his first season is even over. The previous coaches fair enough. But I do think simmons has had it tougher than the rest on so a like for like comparison is tricky. ie Eastmond and Pryce v Lomax And Gaskell. Gidley v shenton. etc

completely agree about it's hard to compare coaches, but i still feel that potter had similar issues to deal with as simmons, but at least going into the playoffs there was a quiet optimism, which i don't think is there this year.. i think we forget how bad potter had it with injuries last year:

with regards to eastmond and pryce, in superleague for the first 15 sl games both played (albeit eastmond played two at full back) for the last 15 games they started 1 game together (ironically both got injured at leeds IIRC) potter used eastmond, pryce, lomax, gaskell, moore, smith and wilkin at half back in that period.. what simmons lacks in experience at half back, he does have consistency, and the same 3 (gaskell, lomax and pryce) playing regularly there

interesting on shenton/gidley.. for me gidley was reasonably quiet last year, if you compare the tries of gidley, foster and gardner outside gidley in the regular season (6, 6, 12) for tries last year against shenton, makinson and gardner this year (8, 6 and 8,) it's very comparable, when you consider we've scored 21 less tries this year (15% less)