Re: Saints v Wire : Sat May 06, 2017 9:00 am  

Saddened! wrote:

Tonight was probably the worst performance I've ever witnessed by a Saints side. I'm sure someone will come up with a few, but I'm struggling to identify one. Wire were more than there for the taking, at 14-0 they were fully bent over, shorts around ankles, eyes closed in resignation of their fate. I've never seen the HJ so utterly quiet, literally didn't hear a peep until they were 10 points up, such was the lack of belief they had that they would win. You could see from the reaction of their players as well that they expected an absolute hammering and were surprised it was so easy.

Wire were little better than us tonight, short of all of their decent players, but they wanted it more. They wouldn't have beaten anyone else in SL with that performance tonight, laughable at times yet comfortably better than we were.

If McManus still cares about the club, he should be thinking about refunding those that attended the game tonight. That's how poor it was, how pathetic it was.

Keiron's reign of terror has not only destroyed the last 2 seasons, but the recruitment during his reign will prevent us being competitive for the next few years as well. It will take many an off season to improve this squad to the point we're back in with a chance, yet that deluded fool still believes we've got a squad capable of competing.

Makinson - Back on wing, keep
Swift - Terrible player, hands like a penguin, release
Morgan - Bang average, release
Percival - Class, help to move to the NRL for his sake
Grace - Give him time
Fages - Not good enough, release
Smith - Awful, release
Amor - A decent squad player but always dominated in big games, keep (Just)
Roby - Sad to say, but he's finished, next season will be his last, keep
Walmsley - Class, keep
LMS - Gone backwards rapidly, release
Peyroux - Should never have been signed, release
Wilkin - Missed him tonight, but not good enough, release
Knowles - Play him 13, keep
Douglas - Slow, lumbering, lazy, release
Walker - One of our better players, keep
Lomax - Finished, release
Taia - Blows hot and cold, another absolute shocker tonight, keep (For one more season)
Richards - Not good enough, release
Thompson - Battered tonight, but one of our better players, keep
Lee - Horrendous player, far too slow and unacceptable distribution for a SL hooker
Owens - See above but replace hooker with player and distribution with every facet of the game

Just what on earth is Holbrook meant to do with that lot?

I think we seen last night why Tommy isn't a fullback. 10 years ago he would have been the dream fullback as he's great under the high ball, great in defence, very brave and pretty quick but the Morden fullback needs to be able to ball play. His "out the back" last night was utterly awful. He's a out and out winger that can do a job at fullback.

Swifty as gone back. He was safe as houses until this year and I fear every time the kick is to him. His drop ball last night set the tone for Warrington comeback and give them the sniff they needed.

Ryan Morgan is decent player and can be threat but just looks disinterested and doesn't look bothered if we win or lose. I can accept a player who puts in 100% but lacks quality but he has quality and lacks effort. Send him home.

Percy is class above for us and not much more can say.

Grace as done ok and can make something from nothing but he's not ready to play week in week out yet and makes to many simple errors.

Fages for me is a good player and would become top player with better players around him. He's got the x factor play in him. Shame he's got the awful smith with him.

Matty smith is awful. His kicking is poor, his game management is poor, he won't take the line on. Worst 7 we've had in years.

Amor is solid Prop. He's little to small against big teams.

Roby is in decline but still one of our better players. It's very rare we put teams on back foot these days whicn restrict his game.

Walmsley is top quality.

Douglas is to slow, to lightweight and another KC shocker of signing.

Walker is decent prop. If we could get his off loads going.

LMS is rubbish until his contract is due. Walks around like he's carrying roll of carpet under his arms. He's way to small.

Peyroux another KC shocker.

Wilkin has to go. Been here to long and need fresh new faces and again to small.

Taia has been good. He makes space for percy and the left edge is our only hope.

Knowles, Richards, Thompson are all Avg run of the mill players. Dead wirh the ball.

I feel for the new coach as this is the toughest saints job in the last 20yrs. The worst squad we've had in Super league by miles and that's why I feel we needed a experienced coach

Re: Saints v Wire : Sat May 06, 2017 11:14 am  

I reckon its limited what any coach can do at any one time. It'll take 3 years to make the necessary changes at least to clear out the shambles thats being offered up. As a statement of intent from the new coach he could release Smith, Wilkin & LMS. Unfortunately it wont happen given the length of all of their contracts.

Whats happened at the club over the more recent past has set us back years. It'll take 3 years to make enough changes to start to make a difference but more than that to re-establish the club anywhere near the top 4. This going to be a long haul, I hope if McManus isn't up to it he plans his exit appropriately as any loss of financial backing will make the task even more difficult.

Re: Saints v Wire : Sat May 06, 2017 12:13 pm  

Legman wrote:

I reckon its limited what any coach can do at any one time. It'll take 3 years to make the necessary changes at least to clear out the shambles thats being offered up. As a statement of intent from the new coach he could release Smith, Wilkin & LMS. Unfortunately it wont happen given the length of all of their contracts.

Whats happened at the club over the more recent past has set us back years. It'll take 3 years to make enough changes to start to make a difference but more than that to re-establish the club anywhere near the top 4. This going to be a long haul, I hope if McManus isn't up to it he plans his exit appropriately as any loss of financial backing will make the task even more difficult.

It can happen quicker than 3yrs if the club are willing to back the new coach and be brave in transfer and recruitment. Hull backed Radford last year and it's put them back in the mix in a season due to good signings.

If the new coach can bring in 4/5 good players and dump some of the crap then it doesn't take long but if the club carry on with mediocre signings then he will take along time.

Re: Saints v Wire : Sat May 06, 2017 6:06 pm  

TF and the wire wrote:

That was hilarious last night to see your lot go from elation to despair as the game wore on. Hardly a sound in the last 30 and a mass exodus 10 from the end. Funny to see your players going over to a virtually empty stand at the end.

Oh and regarding the "it's always you year" chant, we won the League Leaders Shield last year. What did your lot win?

How strange that once was a worthless hubcap now takes pride of place in the dire camp.

Re: Saints v Wire : Sat May 06, 2017 8:24 pm  

Legman wrote:

It'll take 3 years to make the necessary changes at least to clear out the shambles thats being offered up.

TS took over at Wire in 2009 & we were awful and had been for years. In 2009 we won the CC &e again in 2010 when we finished 3rd. In 2011 we were awesome and the same in 2012 (when we again won the CC). So it took TS 2 years to turn us around, but as St Pete says in needs an experienced coach to turn a poor team around.

Re: Saints v Wire : Sun May 07, 2017 7:12 am  

So it might take 3 years as I suggested if an inexperienced coach was in place....oh wait

Re: Saints v Wire : Mon May 08, 2017 9:18 am  

Furthermore, if we try and dump players they still count on the cap in most of the circumstances as far as I can see. Therefore you cant bring any player in of significance who will make a difference and would command a tidy salary if theres not enough cap left. It'll in effect be 1 out 1 in unless he groups funds together in some creative way. He'll simply be governed by those contracts that will expire rather than choosing those he wants to leave. I stand by my first point, we're 3 years away from stability and more years to re-establish in the top 4.

[Uncle Rico]

Re: Saints v Wire : Mon May 08, 2017 12:47 pm  

Legman wrote:

So it might take 3 years as I suggested if an inexperienced coach was in place....oh wait

I think that Fatbelly actually agreed with you regarding the inexperienced/experienced coach in his post, but, have it your own way

Re: Saints v Wire : Mon May 08, 2017 1:07 pm  

StPete knew who the coach was before his post and suggested it could be turned round if the club gave its backing, knowing he's inexperienced & certainly in U.K. reinforced by Fatbelly (sort of), I maintain my point and position thanks

Re: Saints v Wire : Tue May 09, 2017 8:15 am  

Funny how Matty Smith is always the scape goat when times are bad. He wasn't the scapegoat on his return from injury this season and kicked us all over the park and commanded the game. then again, during that game your forwards were steam rollering our pack which allowed your backs to do whatever they wanted.

How you expect Smith or Fages to do anything with that team when your pack gives up after half time is beyond me. Watching the game back its only Makinson, Roby & Smith who were running round screaming and playing like they wanted it. He used to cop the same treatment from the blind pie species when their pack rolled over an all. Wire fans have said the same about Gidley but when he plays behind a solid pack he looks like a super star. Matty has one of the best kicking games in the league but its hard to kick when youre put under the defensive pressure we showed on Friday.

And as for Luke Walsh, well from a neutral outsiders point of view he was a poophouse of the highest order. In one game he made 5 tackles and has tackled twice. Wow. He was only there to kick. you're far better off without him.

The team you put out on Friday was basically the team that hammered us at your place. We just ran that little bit harder, tightened up our defence and got a few lucky bounces from errors caused from quick line speed. Nothing more nothing less.