Re: KC extends contract : Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:37 pm  

People moan in football about managers not being given long enough in the job to put together a long term plan, and to instil their philosophy from top to bottom, so instead managers think about short term success to keep hold of their jobs. So I can see the sense in offering KC the extended contract.

It was probably too early to give KC the job, however he's got it now and we need to give him time to fulfil his potential like Anderson got at Huddersfield, like Radford at Hull who I believe will be very difficult team to beat this year.

Now that Cunningham's got a bit of job security, he 'might' give the players more freedom to express themselves.

Re: KC extends contract : Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:36 pm  

Twentyman wrote:

People moan in football about managers not being given long enough in the job to put together a long term plan, and to instil their philosophy from top to bottom, so instead managers think about short term success to keep hold of their jobs. So I can see the sense in offering KC the extended contract.

It was probably too early to give KC the job, however he's got it now and we need to give him time to fulfil his potential like Anderson got at Huddersfield, like Radford at Hull who I believe will be very difficult team to beat this year.

Now that Cunningham's got a bit of job security, he 'might' give the players more freedom to express themselves.

Yeah yeah, sounds good. Or, is it because Keiron Cunningham is very cheap as coaches go. He's probably on a third of what an established NRL coach would command. He'll also quietly tow the line and won't risk anything. KC as a coach is pretty much the opposite to Ian Millward. He's pretty much the opposite to what a Saints coach should be.

The timing of this decision is just bizarre and totally proves my theory that McManus doesn't care one bit for winning trophies. He's not concerned with creating a winning side or attracting top players to enable the club to capitalise on the commercial benefits that being successful brings. Middle of the road is fine for him, no risk. If McManus was your work pension advisor he'd put everything in the lowest risk category until you die. You'd make £15 over the 50 years you work. Solid.

It might turn out to be a decent decision. But why not wait until August to see how its going before making the decision. He's not a coach with a CV so will have no NRL interest and the big clubs over here don't want him. Why not wait and see? There is a decent chance given our recruitment and how poor the style of play is that we'll be 7th or 8th after a few months with the crowds dwindling and he'll be sat on a longer contract than necessary.

Re: KC extends contract : Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:01 pm  

Twentyman wrote:

People moan in football about managers not being given long enough in the job to put together a long term plan, and to instil their philosophy from top to bottom, so instead managers think about short term success to keep hold of their jobs. So I can see the sense in offering KC the extended contract.

Thats the problem with sport today we expect almost instant success in a short space of time. We could have gone for a coach from the NRL but its likely that would be an unproven one who would have needed a full season to get the team underway.
Last season KC played the percentages with a restrictive game plan partly because of the long injury crisis in our pivotal positions, yet he got us to within one game of playing in each final. My biggest concern is that we don't seem to be using the attacking tactical experience of Sean Long, so I,m hoping now that the team is a bit more strength in depth we can go back to the "saints way" of playing, but that needs big improvements from our half backs to get the team around the park.

Re: KC extends contract : Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:11 am  

Saddened! wrote:

Yeah yeah, sounds good. Or, is it because Keiron Cunningham is very cheap as coaches go. He's probably on a third of what an established NRL coach would command. He'll also quietly tow the line and won't risk anything. KC as a coach is pretty much the opposite to Ian Millward. He's pretty much the opposite to what a Saints coach should be.

The timing of this decision is just bizarre and totally proves my theory that McManus doesn't care one bit for winning trophies. He's not concerned with creating a winning side or attracting top players to enable the club to capitalise on the commercial benefits that being successful brings. Middle of the road is fine for him, no risk. If McManus was your work pension advisor he'd put everything in the lowest risk category until you die. You'd make £15 over the 50 years you work. Solid.

It might turn out to be a decent decision. But why not wait until August to see how its going before making the decision. He's not a coach with a CV so will have no NRL interest and the big clubs over here don't want him. Why not wait and see? There is a decent chance given our recruitment and how poor the style of play is that we'll be 7th or 8th after a few months with the crowds dwindling and he'll be sat on a longer contract than necessary.

Christ you talk some nonsense. You cannot compare Ian Millward with KC. Ian had a completely different squad to work with. He had far better players with much more ability and skill. We played the way we did because of the players we had. He had undoubtably the best set of players in the history of SL. Ian could risk things because he knew that his players would probably make it pay off.

No club has the same quality throughout their squad now. That's not McManus's fault and it's certainly not KC's fault. It is just a fact of life that some deluded fans have to get over.

Not much point in discussing your personal attack on McManus in great depth. After the money that he has given the club over the past 11/12 years, how you can say what you have said is just completely twisted and delusional. To be honest, I don't for one minute think that you truly believe it. You're just saying it for the sake of it.

I have no problem with trusting someone and believing in them. As stated at tonight's preseason dinner, this decision is all about having a long term strategy in place and having the coaching team who have developed it and who are going to implement it, in place for the long term as well. Stability in my book is a good thing.

Re: KC extends contract : Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:52 am  

saint87 wrote:

Christ you talk some nonsense. You cannot compare Ian Millward with KC. Ian had a completely different squad to work with. He had far better players with much more ability and skill. We played the way we did because of the players we had. He had undoubtably the best set of players in the history of SL. Ian could risk things because he knew that his players would probably make it pay off.

No club has the same quality throughout their squad now. That's not McManus's fault and it's certainly not KC's fault. It is just a fact of life that some deluded fans have to get over.

Not much point in discussing your personal attack on McManus in great depth. After the money that he has given the club over the past 11/12 years, how you can say what you have said is just completely twisted and delusional. To be honest, I don't for one minute think that you truly believe it. You're just saying it for the sake of it.

I have no problem with trusting someone and believing in them. As stated at tonight's preseason dinner, this decision is all about having a long term strategy in place and having the coaching team who have developed it and who are going to implement it, in place for the long term as well. Stability in my book is a good thing.

Do you not think there should be some signs of life before you renew someone's deal like this? If we're top 4 and competing for trophies after a few months why not? But why do it now after arguably one of the most soul destroying seasons we've had. If we had started last season poorly and it had started coming good I might understand it. But it's not, it went the other way. McManus has to realise the reason season ticket sales are down and will continue to be down is the style of play on show. If that doesn't improve things will get ugly for us next sesaon. Plenty of delusional people thinking we're going to win trophies and that we have a top side. Reality is we're not any better than most sides in SL.

Re: KC extends contract : Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:20 am  

Saddened! wrote:

Do you not think there should be some signs of life before you renew someone's deal like this? If we're top 4 and competing for trophies after a few months why not? But why do it now after arguably one of the most soul destroying seasons we've had. If we had started last season poorly and it had started coming good I might understand it. But it's not, it went the other way. McManus has to realise the reason season ticket sales are down and will continue to be down is the style of play on show. If that doesn't improve things will get ugly for us next sesaon. Plenty of delusional people thinking we're going to win trophies and that we have a top side. Reality is we're not any better than most sides in SL.

Don't agree that it was the most soul destroying seasons we've had. We where battered with injuries in key positions and made two semi finals. Arguably we should have won one and got to Old Trafford.

Which trophy can we compete for after a "few months"? They don't come around until August.

The style of play on show has changed across the board in the whole of SL, not just at Saints. Something that you fail to mention. Strange that!!!

Your last sentence seems to indicate that SL is pretty even. So we must be in with a decent chance then. I will agree with you on that one.

Re: KC extends contract : Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:39 am  

Saddened! wrote:

Do you not think there should be some signs of life before you renew someone's deal like this? If we're top 4 and competing for trophies after a few months why not? But why do it now after arguably one of the most soul destroying seasons we've had. If we had started last season poorly and it had started coming good I might understand it. But it's not, it went the other way. McManus has to realise the reason season ticket sales are down and will continue to be down is the style of play on show. If that doesn't improve things will get ugly for us next sesaon. Plenty of delusional people thinking we're going to win trophies and that we have a top side. Reality is we're not any better than most sides in SL.

It very much sounds as though you want us to be another Salford and risk all stability at the club with the procurement of a new coach and players that are not really available, I can't see anything wrong in a chairman showing faith and encouragement to a young british coach coming within a whisker of getting to both finals under so much disruptive circumstances.
Agree about our style of play, not soul destroying perhaps more of a frustrating one due to the lack of creativity at half back and full back, Fages and Owen will go some way to improve the situation.

I must be one of your "delusional ones", I expect us to win every game, win every cup, be the top side in super league, much sooner be "delusional" than be a "Cherry Picking Fan."

Re: KC extends contract : Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:12 am  

saint87 wrote:

Don't agree that it was the most soul destroying seasons we've had. We where battered with injuries in key positions and made two semi finals. Arguably we should have won one and got to Old Trafford.

Which trophy can we compete for after a "few months"? They don't come around until August.

The style of play on show has changed across the board in the whole of SL, not just at Saints. Something that you fail to mention. Strange that!!!

Your last sentence seems to indicate that SL is pretty even. So we must be in with a decent chance then. I will agree with you on that one.

The injuries was nothing compared to what Brown had to go with. Brown didn't have any halves at all in his last year. Brown had learned his trade though and adapted our style and we win the grand final.

Re: KC extends contract : Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:21 am  

I'll ignore the sad one as usual. however I do agree with his ultimate point if not the mantra behind it.

I did not want KC as the coach this early on, but once he was picked you have to back him and give a rookie coach time.

2 years seems fair for him to show his influence on the team. I don't see the rush to sign him up. Coaches rarely get poached and unlike players it's a buyers market.

See how the season pans out and then offer a contract. If he had won SL or the CC in his first year you could argue that would be an exceptional achievement and so a new contract would have at least a reason behind it

Doing it now feels overly rushed to me.

Re: KC extends contract : Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:34 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

I'll ignore the sad one as usual. however I do agree with ...him

Doing it now feels overly rushed to me.

Another convert. You'll be joining me for the post-mortem thread next Friday then?