Re: Matty Smith - Best English halfback in Super League : Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:11 pm  

I'd love to see Kevin Brown play alongside Matty Smith for England. I know he plays for a team that finished in the bottom 4, but Widnes are so impotent without him. He makes things happen and defenders don't have a clue how to cope with him. If he had the quality of the players for England around him, he could cause so many problems. He brings out the best in the runners around him.

Re: Matty Smith - Best English halfback in Super League : Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:20 pm  

Twentyman wrote:

Because he doesn't have the electrifying pace of a Eastmond or an eye for a gap like Burrow's in his pomp, Matty Smith doesn't and has never got the credit he deserves.

He brings balance, structure and an intelligent kicking game. Had we not carted him off, them oh so nearly defeats in play off semis etc when we instead chose to run with the Eastmond's, Lomax's and Gaskell's, we might have won something in those famine years.

The Michael Carrick of Rugby League in my opinion.

I think Smith is a very good player and should never have left Saints.
However, I think the best English halfback last season was Luke Gale from Castleford. He has the ability to break the line, has a good kicking game and his support play is first class. Oh I forgot, he doesn't play for Wigan

Re: Matty Smith - Best English halfback in Super League : Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:36 am  

I don't think anyone is suggesting that if a better option comes along they shouldn't get picked. Like I said though, its Widdop who ought to be more at risk. Smith is the kind of player you can at least structure your team around. Widdop looks like he is, but seems to have lost even basic organisational skills and is absolutely non-existent as an attacking threat.

To be fair to Widdop, he seemed to go into his shell once the Dragons signed Marshall, but a player with his experience ought to be able to take games by the scruff of the neck and he seems less and less likely to do so.

Re: Matty Smith - Best English halfback in Super League : Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:11 am  

We all seem to agree on Matty Smith's strengths.

I think its important to note that, although what he does well may seem like staple skills for a 7, there are plenty of players who fail to do these basics.

Re: Matty Smith - Best English halfback in Super League : Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:21 am  

Twentyman wrote:

Because he doesn't have the electrifying pace of a Eastmond or an eye for a gap like Burrow's in his pomp, Matty Smith doesn't and has never got the credit he deserves.

He brings balance, structure and an intelligent kicking game. Had we not carted him off, them oh so nearly defeats in play off semis etc when we instead chose to run with the Eastmond's, Lomax's and Gaskell's, we might have won something in those famine years.

The Michael Carrick of Rugby League in my opinion.

We lost a GF with Smith playing.

Eastmond left, we couldn't hold onto him. Had he stayed (and stayed fiit) he would have been playing on Saturday, and causing the Kiwis trouble. In one GF defeat he scored all our points.

We should have kept Smith instead of Scott Moore. That was the mistake imo

Re: Matty Smith - Best English halfback in Super League : Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:21 am  

Offside Monkey wrote:

We lost a GF with Smith playing.

Eastmond left, we couldn't hold onto him. Had he stayed (and stayed fiit) he would have been playing on Saturday, and causing the Kiwis trouble. In one GF defeat he scored all our points.

We should have kept Smith instead of Scott Moore. That was the mistake imo

To be honest I don't think Matty Smith has improved all that much since we let him go, bit more experience and composure perhaps but still not creative and dominant to orchestrate a team consistently. Every season the standard of Superleague weakens as the quality of players available suffers, Matty is OK in a structured side like Wigan but Saints wanted created creative open play half backs which we never got for the remaining 6 years courtesy of Eastmond. A fit Walsh is much superior than Matty Smith, internationally we have struggled so long for half backs similar to Saints, George Williams looks very promising and should develop into a much better player than Matty.

Re: Matty Smith - Best English halfback in Super League : Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:14 pm  

Matty Smith is a meat and veg player. Does the basic well enough at a consistent level but has no flair or spark.

Re: Matty Smith - Best English halfback in Super League : Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:16 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

To be honest I don't think Matty Smith has improved all that much since we let him go, bit more experience and composure perhaps but still not creative and dominant to orchestrate a team consistently. Every season the standard of Superleague weakens as the quality of players available suffers, Matty is OK in a structured side like Wigan but Saints wanted created creative open play half backs which we never got for the remaining 6 years courtesy of Eastmond. A fit Walsh is much superior than Matty Smith, internationally we have struggled so long for half backs similar to Saints, George Williams looks very promising and should develop into a much better player than Matty.

I think this idea - that a steady, organising half back is for boring, structured play and an instinctive, pacey half is for creative open play - is a common misconception. Players need space, time and possession in good positions in order to really improvise. A really good organiser at half back provides all of these things. He himself might not be producing crazy youtube moments, but he's creating the conditions for other players to do that. Matty Smith's directness on Saturday meant that we got much better quality ball out to people like Watkins than we had in the previous two tests. Conversely, the improvisational running of Widdop and Williams meant that when the ball got to the edges it was always a blind alley. I agree that Williams will ultimately become a better player than Matty Smith, but I think a player like Williams needs a player like Smith alongside him. It would be great if we had a more talented version of Smith to call upon (look at Cooper Cronk, for example - he is first and foremost an organising half, and the Aussies always have one in their side), but with the exception of McGuire, who now seems to be out of the picture, we don't.

EDIT: By 'we', of course, I mean England, not Saints.

Re: Matty Smith - Best English halfback in Super League : Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:47 pm  

The Grand Final that Matty Smith played in, is this the same one where he'd spent the entire season on loan to Salford and got called back to play in that one game (my memory might be betraying me)? If so, who expects a player to just come back in for a game after spending the season elsewhere and just slip back into the structures etc It's essentially like signing for a new team...
And again, if I remember right, despite losing that game he played well.

I said it at the time and I'll say it now, Eastmond, just like Lomax wasn't at his most effective as a scrum half. He was an explosive runner, who was exciting to watch, but he wasn't the type of player who could guide the team around the pitch and come up with intelligent plays on the last tackle. In my opinion, he was a fullback thrown in to the scrum half role in a desperate attempt to recapture the Sean Long glory days.

Re: Matty Smith - Best English halfback in Super League : Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:07 am  

Twentyman wrote:

I said it at the time and I'll say it now, Eastmond, just like Lomax wasn't at his most effective as a scrum half. He was an explosive runner, who was exciting to watch, but he wasn't the type of player who could guide the team around the pitch and come up with intelligent plays on the last tackle. In my opinion, he was a fullback thrown in to the scrum half role in a desperate attempt to recapture the Sean Long glory days.

Eastmond was playing for us when he was around 20. He had a far more complete set of half backs skills than Sean Long did at that age.
Just because someone is fast, doesn't mean they can't do the organising role, its jut player that have it all are obviously a rarer commodity.
Lomax won YPOTY playing 7. He did have a limitations, but could work well with a thinker/orgnaisor/kicker (like smith) alongside him. When we started picking Hohaia at 6 was when his deficiencies at 7 became too much (a long with a lot of other things not going well), but again, he was very young to be expected to be a complete halfback.

As I've said, I like Smith, I wished we'd have kept him instead of giving that doorhandle Moore another chance, but I don't think Smith was the guy to turn us from bridesmaids to brides