Re: Stats from last night : Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:39 am  

curly990 wrote:

He did seem to clam up in the CC semi after that hit from Leulieu (sp) but on the other hand after that nasty clash of heads with Amor the other week he did play on (I think).

I like the fact that in last seasons grand final he put a first big hit on the Wigan pack (OK giving a penalty away again) but after Lance got cleaned out, Wellens went charging in and grabbed hold of Flower but it was Mose who came running in with his right hand cocked and gave out some much needed retribution and although i don't think he connected the intention was still there.

And then went off after 8 mins with no carries under his belt. Catalan was another pack that rattled him and didnt want to know.

He's big, he's soft and he's lazy.

Re: Stats from last night : Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:58 am  

St pete wrote:

And then went off after 8 mins with no carries under his belt. Catalan was another pack that rattled him and didnt want to know.

He's big, he's soft and he's lazy.

I agree with the first one not the second and to some degree the third. If you remember back to when Paleaaesina played for Wigan (someone of similar size) and near the end of his stint nearly always got pin-pointed by the opposition and more often than not ended up getting beat by a man than mostly led to a try and then getting subbed. I can't remember this ever happening with Mose so maybe the short minutes are down to the coach being cautious and pre-empting this kind of event. You have to agree that most 'impact' props have some issues with lack of fitness but I put this down to their body shape rather than effort put in.

Re: Stats from last night : Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:01 pm  

curly990 wrote:

I agree with the first one not the second and to some degree the third. If you remember back to when Paleaaesina played for Wigan (someone of similar size) and near the end of his stint nearly always got pin-pointed by the opposition and more often than not ended up getting beat by a man than mostly led to a try and then getting subbed. I can't remember this ever happening with Mose so maybe the short minutes are down the coach being cautious and pre-empting this kind of event. You have to agree that most 'impact' props have some issues with lack of fitness but I put this down to their body shape rather than effort put in.

I don't think anyone can say he's not lazy.

Re: Stats from last night : Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:05 pm  

St pete wrote:

I don't think anyone can say he's not lazy.

I agree that he could be fitter but someone that is lazy doesn't work at losing a couple of stone, which he did after his injury when he first joined us. And someone who I class as lazy would not put their hand up and play over 50 consecutive games. Ok in the majority he only did small minutes but when asked to did the longer minutes for the team.

In it's simplistic form the point is to score more points than the opposition and Mose with his block-busting runs near the line and quick play the balls score a few and contributes to a lot of try's. If he is capable of doing this near the line you need to surround him with other players that are capable of getting you into this position so he can carry out his role. He is never going to do 40 plus tackles a match but a team full of 40+ tackles a match are never going to score many points and thus not win many matches. You need a balance in a team and although in many peoples books Mose maybe marmite I don't think we would have won last season's grand final without him. I think he has gone off the boil since announcing he signed for St George but he is not on his own when it comes to players leaving & packing their bags early but I feel he is a big game player and I hope when it comes to the play offs that Mose is named on the bench for Saints.

Re: Stats from last night : Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:35 pm  

We're entering business end of the season. We can't afford to be dropping players just because we don't like them.

A coach's JOB is to get the best out of his resources.

Re: Stats from last night : Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:45 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

We're entering business end of the season. We can't afford to be dropping players just because we don't like them.

A coach's JOB is to get the best out of his resources.

Do you think KC dropped him because he doesn't like him or performance based?

His job is to win games and pick a team that will win. He's dropped JT and Amor this year. Does that mean he doesn't like them?

Re: Stats from last night : Sun Sep 06, 2015 1:01 pm  

St pete wrote:

Do you think KC dropped him because he doesn't like him or performance based?

His job is to win games and pick a team that will win. He's dropped JT and Amor this year. Does that mean he doesn't like them?

I've no issues with Mose or Turner. Sure, their performances can fluctuate (like any player). But not to such an extent that I would have dropped either.

It strikes me that Mose has been poorly used. As has been pointed out by others - very often he is deliberately employed as a foil (which is always likely to impact on his number of carries). Also I would have started him far more often - especially against some of the bigger packs in the league.

Turner's defensive issues are in part a product of our defensive pattern. I predicted that Jones (or whomever) would find himself in similar strife and sure enough he was caught in no-man's land against Leeds.

On the other hand Amor's performances throughout the season have been considerably down on the previous year. Why this is so and whether he deserves to be dropped - I'm not sure.

Re: Stats from last night : Sun Sep 06, 2015 1:09 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

I've no issues with Mose or Turner. Sure, their performances can fluctuate (like any player). But not to such an extent that I would have dropped either.

It strikes me that Mose has been poorly used. As has been pointed out by others - very often he is deliberately employed as a foil (which is always likely to impact on his number of carries). Also I would have started him far more often - especially against some of the bigger packs in the league.

Turner's defensive issues are in part a product of our defensive pattern. I predicted that Jones (or whomever) would find himself in similar strife and sure enough he was caught in no-man's land against Leeds.

On the other hand Amor's performances throughout the season have been considerably down on the previous year. Why this is so and whether he deserves to be dropped - I'm not sure.

I don't think Kc has used Amor correctly. Kyle is a long mins prop, he likes to do the work and of left on longer will rack up meters and tackles. It's rare this year he will bust a tackle but he needs to be on longer. I don't think two 15 min spells is the way to use him.

I thought the front row with Amor, robes, sav, alex and richards was the best we have played as a middle unit for long long time. All was industrious in the way they went about the job. If we can get Vea back in that pack and the middles play that way every week from now on then I can see us being there or there abouts.

So for me, Id leave mose out and stick with the same lads this week

Re: Stats from last night : Sun Sep 06, 2015 1:28 pm  

I don't think our forwards are a problem - in any configuration.

Our problem - for most of this season - has been a misfiring (or non-functioning) half-back partnership. This has been further exacerbated by not having a genuine loose-forward who can function as an additional link.

In game after game we have been almost totally unable to get our backs into the fight. All the workload is being thrown back onto our forwards. These are big lads. They can't afford to be doing any more work than they already are because they tire quicker.

The crazy thing is - it's not as though our backs don't have any room to work in. We've made a truckload of yards all season. The fact that our centres, wings and full-back haven't capitalised on the foundations built by our pack really is a damning indictment of our halves.

Re: Stats from last night : Sun Sep 06, 2015 1:36 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

I've no issues with Mose or Turner. Sure, their performances can fluctuate (like any player). But not to such an extent that I would have dropped either.

It strikes me that Mose has been poorly used. As has been pointed out by others - very often he is deliberately employed as a foil (which is always likely to impact on his number of carries). Also I would have started him far more often - especially against some of the bigger packs in the league.

Turner's defensive issues are in part a product of our defensive pattern. I predicted that Jones (or whomever) would find himself in similar strife and sure enough he was caught in no-man's land against Leeds.

On the other hand Amor's performances throughout the season have been considerably down on the previous year. Why this is so and whether he deserves to be dropped - I'm not sure.

Out of the 26 matches Masoe has played this year, in 22 he has made 10 or less carries. The best way to judge a player is look at how he performs against the good teams. In his 4 matches against Wigan and Leeds, he's averaging 11 tackles and 47m per match. He's not been poorly used, he's just been poor.

Which defensive pattern of ours is it that means our centre has to make the wrong decision and shoot in unnecessarily? Jones did so when defending a three on three and created a gap for Keinhorst. He made the wrong decision, this wasn't anything to do with defensive structure. It's just Jones makes the wrong decision a lot less often than Turner does.