Re: Hull Game : Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:53 pm  

I was critical of JT and his mate when they turned up, JT has improved but his mate quite rightly left. However when you reflect back on the great saints centres of the past wearing 3 or 4 it makes me wonder where we are pitching ourselves and what we'll expect and accept. What if we could choose Newlove, Meninga, Lyon, Iro, McCracken etc now? Puts it into perspective a bit?

Re: Hull Game : Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:42 am  

Legman wrote:

I was critical of JT and his mate when they turned up, JT has improved but his mate quite rightly left. However when you reflect back on the great saints centres of the past wearing 3 or 4 it makes me wonder where we are pitching ourselves and what we'll expect and accept. What if we could choose Newlove, Meninga, Lyon, Iro, McCracken etc now? Puts it into perspective a bit?

He won't be remembered at saints for good reasons. His attack is ok but it's not great. Some here get a bone on when he beats a man but only because we not used to seeing it from a saints back.

His defence and decision making is up there with the worst ive seen for pro player.

Re: Hull Game : Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:05 am  

Comparisons with the past are pointless.

Are any of the other players equals with previous generations?

Turner is one of few in this team that can bust a tackle and create a try for himself or someone else.

He's not a Saints born and bred lad so does not get the free ride that some local lads get.

Not my favourite player but gets more grief than he deserves. Easy scapegoat, go after the none local players.

Re: Hull Game : Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:33 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

Comparisons with the past are pointless.

Are any of the other players equals with previous generations?

Turner is one of few in this team that can bust a tackle and create a try for himself or someone else.

He's not a Saints born and bred lad so does not get the free ride that some local lads get.

Not my favourite player but gets more grief than he deserves. Easy scapegoat, go after the none local players.

The point he's making is our standards have dropped dramatically. Some say he's really really good! He's decent in attack but woeful in defence.

When I say we need a strike player, some people say "who makes way" lol lol lol obviously Turner. One nutjob said he'd rather have turner over SKD

Re: Hull Game : Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:40 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

Comparisons with the past are pointless.

Are any of the other players equals with previous generations?

Turner is one of few in this team that can bust a tackle and create a try for himself or someone else.

He's not a Saints born and bred lad so does not get the free ride that some local lads get.

Not my favourite player but gets more grief than he deserves. Easy scapegoat, go after the none local players.

Exactly. Whilst he may not be perfect, he's our top try scorer and has plenty of assists. His big plays are often at very important times, too.

He may have weaknesses, but certainly this year its certainly not a lack of effort. And lets not forget last year when he was the guy sticking his hand up to pla first receiver throughout the playoffs when Gary Wheeler bottled it and Lance was still struggling to become a ful time 6.

Re: Hull Game : Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:59 am  

Offside Monkey wrote:

Exactly. Whilst he may not be perfect, he's our top try scorer and has plenty of assists. His big plays are often at very important times, too.

He may have weaknesses, but certainly this year its certainly not a lack of effort. And lets not forget last year when he was the guy sticking his hand up to pla first receiver throughout the playoffs when Gary Wheeler bottled it and Lance was still struggling to become a ful time 6.

Doesbt hide the fact he's not very good. Flash out his hand up to play halves, Wello played everywhere, Josh jones gets moved about, percy got moved to fullback. Playing other postions is part and parcel of the game and that doesn't make Turner special.

Re: Hull Game : Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:05 am  

Legman wrote:

However when you reflect back on the great saints centres of the past wearing 3 or 4 it makes me wonder where we are pitching ourselves and what we'll expect and accept. What if we could choose Newlove, Meninga, Lyon, Iro, McCracken etc now? Puts it into perspective a bit?

I think you could say that for most teams, quality of super league players have been in decline for the last 5 years, we,ve not had any home grown world class international centres and half backs for well over 10 years now.

Re: Hull Game : Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:19 am  

St pete wrote:

Doesbt hide the fact he's not very good. Flash out his hand up to play halves, Wello played everywhere, Josh jones gets moved about, percy got moved to fullback. Playing other postions is part and parcel of the game and that doesn't make Turner special.

Thats because Flash, Jones and Wello became utility players and in an injury free side are not 1st 17. Percival had his worst performances in a saints shirt at Full Back. Turner has played half back and loose forward as a last measure because of injuries, he's the best attacking centre we,ve got at the club, nearly all our back line are bad defensively. The opposition have been targeting our left hand side lately and Percival has been missing a few tackles of late.

Re: Hull Game : Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:21 am  

St pete wrote:

He won't be remembered at saints for good reasons. His attack is ok but it's not great. Some here get a bone on when he beats a man but only because we not used to seeing it from a saints back.

His defence and decision making is up there with the worst ive seen for pro player.

Do you not find it coincidental that Turner's defence had really tightened up and got a lot better earlier in the year when Wilkin was in the half position, and has got worse again since Walsh came back into the team?

Also would be interested to see how you rate Kallum Watkins & Michael Shenton compared to JT this season (no doubt a lot better), yet when looking at the stats it tells an interesting story:
Turner: 15 tries, 9 assists, 1,681 metres (8.49m average gain), 20 clean breaks
Watkins: 14 tries, 9 assists, 2,814 metres (8.18 average gain), 29 clean breaks
Shenton: 14 tries, 9 assists, 1,989 metres (7.17 average gain), 18 clean breaks

Now I am not for one minute trying to suggest that Turner is a better centre than Watkins based on certain stats (Watkins is best English centre by a mile). But if you bear in mind Watkins has played a fair share of games at full back this year (and therefore due to kick returns will have made extra carries/metres that centres wouldnt normally have to), then it looks like JT's stats are very comparable to Watkins - 1 more try, same assists and a better average gain per carry...on that basis I assume you think Watkins is also "ok in attack but not great"?

As said above, I am not for one minute suggesting that Turner is better than Watkins, but the lad has been one of our best performers all season and one of our biggest attacking threats. Think you are being a bit harsh on him to be honest

Re: Hull Game : Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:30 am  

wakey_saint wrote:

Do you not find it coincidental that Turner's defence had really tightened up and got a lot better earlier in the year when Wilkin was in the half position, and has got worse again since Walsh came back into the team?

Also would be interested to see how you rate Kallum Watkins & Michael Shenton compared to JT this season (no doubt a lot better), yet when looking at the stats it tells an interesting story:
Turner: 15 tries, 9 assists, 1,681 metres (8.49m average gain), 20 clean breaks
Watkins: 14 tries, 9 assists, 2,814 metres (8.18 average gain), 29 clean breaks
Shenton: 14 tries, 9 assists, 1,989 metres (7.17 average gain), 18 clean breaks

Now I am not for one minute trying to suggest that Turner is a better centre than Watkins based on certain stats (Watkins is best English centre by a mile). But if you bear in mind Watkins has played a fair share of games at full back this year (and therefore due to kick returns will have made extra carries/metres that centres wouldnt normally have to), then it looks like JT's stats are very comparable to Watkins - 1 more try, same assists and a better average gain per carry...on that basis I assume you think Watkins is also "ok in attack but not great"?

As said above, I am not for one minute suggesting that Turner is better than Watkins, but the lad has been one of our best performers all season and one of our biggest attacking threats. Think you are being a bit harsh on him to be honest

I've said he's decent with the ball, im not doubting that but his defensive decisons and execution is shocking. What's his missed tackles compared to the above ?

Having Turner and Walsh on that left edge is like a big sign saying "attack us we can't tackle". It's a open invitation to hammer us on the left. Obviously KC and the coaching staff now fear for us on that side as he's not been selected.

I don't see him getting picked for england either and considering the lack of quality in the English centres it says it all really. Even Dan Sarginson was picked before him who is nearly as bad as Turner in defence.