Re: jarrod samutt : Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:54 am  

Albion wrote:

People were mentioning him prior to this season starting tho so to a lot he's not a last resort. He's not a good enough player to play for us.

True, we can't be too picky at the minute (we can't bring in anyone anyway) but I hate this mentality of wanting to bring some average bloke in because he is a last resort.

Better than doing nothing like McManus does. The degredation of the squad is not showing any signs of stopping next season, despite the signing of Walsh last year being heralded as an awaking from our slumber.

Re: jarrod samutt : Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:25 am  

Saddened! wrote:

Better than doing nothing like McManus does. The degredation of the squad is not showing any signs of stopping next season, despite the signing of Walsh last year being heralded as an awaking from our slumber.

It hasn't just been Walsh though has it? It's been Walsh, Manu, Amor, Walmsley, Masoe . . . . We all said we needed scrum half and props, we got scrum half and props. In fact, I'd say our weakest areas have gone to being our strongest - the best 7 and pack in SL in my opinion when all are fit.

We have brought in players of sufficient quality to take us to the top of SL; do you really think the squad has got worse or are you just throwing around ill informed knee-jerk opinion as per?

Re: jarrod samutt : Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:52 am  

FearTheVee wrote:

It hasn't just been Walsh though has it? It's been Walsh, Manu, Amor, Walmsley, Masoe . . . . We all said we needed scrum half and props, we got scrum half and props. In fact, I'd say our weakest areas have gone to being our strongest - the best 7 and pack in SL in my opinion when all are fit.

We have brought in players of sufficient quality to take us to the top of SL; do you really think the squad has got worse or are you just throwing around ill informed knee-jerk opinion as per?

Saddened has been registered since 2003 and has been talking about our rapid decline since then. If we had been rapidly declining since 2003 we would be in Championship One by now. As it happens we're top of Super League (that's not to say that everything is rosy - I realise that it isn't).

As you point out, our signings over the last two years have been good (with the possible/probable exception of our gambles on Beaumont and Dawson - although time will tell on that score). For me the thing that has really held the club back isn't a reluctance to sign players, but rather an eagerness to sign instant replacements for departing players - particularly Graham and Eastmond - whether they are suited to the role or not. Royce's panic buying of Boof and Hohaia solved no problems in the halves or the front row, but maxed out our salary cap and quota allowance, massively restricting our options for two years. So I'd rather see us hanging on for the right player than signing players that can't nail down a spot at Bradford or Wakefield.

Re: jarrod samutt : Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:16 am  

Albion wrote:

I really don't see what the big thing is about him? He's just a bob average player IMO.

Apart from being absolutely poop, he is one of the weakest defenders in SL, does being an overseas player automatically mean he is amazing ?

Re: jarrod samutt : Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:43 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

We have brought in players of sufficient quality to take us to the top of SL; do you really think the squad has got worse or are you just throwing around ill informed knee-jerk opinion as per?

The squad is much worse as every team in superleague.

Cayless, Cunningham, Graham against Amor, Roby, Walmsley for instance, also add for all these years we,ve never replaced the quality.of Longy, Martyn and Sculthorpe.

Re: jarrod samutt : Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:13 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

The squad is much worse as every team in superleague.

Cayless, Cunningham, Graham against Amor, Roby, Walmsley for instance, also add for all these years we,ve never replaced the quality.of Longy, Martyn and Sculthorpe.

What is your time horizon here? Have we improved on last year? Two years back?

Saddened is criticising Saints relative to other teams - does everyone else have a better side than they did when Long/Martyn/Sculthorpe or even Graham/Cayless were playing?

If the answer is no, does that mean every other chairman is "doing nothing" like McManus is being accused of? Or perhaps there are more subtle changes in the league overall that mean you can't just say McManus is "doing nothing" for assembling a squad that sits above every other squad in the competition? And doing so having built a brand new stadium?

It's so depressing being a Saints fan sometimes, I seriously think our fan base comprises some of the biggest whining tarts in the world.

Re: jarrod samutt : Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:44 pm  

Albion wrote:

People were mentioning him prior to this season starting tho so to a lot he's not a last resort. He's not a good enough player to play for us.

True, we can't be too picky at the minute (we can't bring in anyone anyway) but I hate this mentality of wanting to bring some average bloke in because he is a last resort.

he's not good enough a player to play for us???..that's a joke..... so turner and wheeler is our answer is it...i dont think so..i think samutt would have settled down at saints with being one of the most sucsessfull teams in superleague!..average bloke....theres a few average blokes in our squad so he'd feel at home!

Re: jarrod samutt : Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:08 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

It hasn't just been Walsh though has it? It's been Walsh, Manu, Amor, Walmsley, Masoe . . . . We all said we needed scrum half and props, we got scrum half and props. In fact, I'd say our weakest areas have gone to being our strongest - the best 7 and pack in SL in my opinion when all are fit.

We have brought in players of sufficient quality to take us to the top of SL; do you really think the squad has got worse or are you just throwing around ill informed knee-jerk opinion as per?

The best pack in super league? I must be watching a different pack than the one that's been dominated nearly all year. The has been many a thread about how soft and weak our pack has been.

Re: jarrod samutt : Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:21 pm  

Dux wrote:

Saddened has been registered since 2003 and has been talking about our rapid decline since then. If we had been rapidly declining since 2003 we would be in Championship One by now. As it happens we're top of Super League (that's not to say that everything is rosy - I realise that it isn't).

As you point out, our signings over the last two years have been good (with the possible/probable exception of our gambles on Beaumont and Dawson - although time will tell on that score). For me the thing that has really held the club back isn't a reluctance to sign players, but rather an eagerness to sign instant replacements for departing players - particularly Graham and Eastmond - whether they are suited to the role or not. Royce's panic buying of Boof and Hohaia solved no problems in the halves or the front row, but maxed out our salary cap and quota allowance, massively restricting our options for two years. So I'd rather see us hanging on for the right player than signing players that can't nail down a spot at Bradford or Wakefield.

Brown had the brain to identify our need for a 7 and props which we've been in dire need of for a long long time. I think Browns recruitment as been pretty good in Manu, Amor, Walsh and Walmsley. They have all proved good signings. The verdict is still out on Mose for me as he's been hit and miss and I expect him to be more miss when the cold and rain comes in at play off time.

However, I agree totally with saddened about our recruitment pre Nathan Brown. We went far to long not replacing quality players and praying to god that we have a golden generation of youth which didn't happen. With that gamble and bringing in the likes of Boof and Lance to play positions they not used to has set us back years and years.

I remember everyone creaming their pants when we put kids out against Cas at home and we took them apart. Silly posts suggesting we don't need to sign any players as these kids will be the team for the next 10 years and loads of silly teams being posted of how our team will be for next 10 years.

Where is the golden generation of Armstrong, Tyrer, foster, Gaskell, Ellis, frodsham , Moore, Dixon, ashurst etc ?

McManus put 90% of fans under his spell that we going with youth but what he really meant was we doing it on the cheap.

Re: jarrod samutt : Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:43 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

What is your time horizon here? Have we improved on last year? Two years back?

Saddened is criticising Saints relative to other teams - does everyone else have a better side than they did when Long/Martyn/Sculthorpe or even Graham/Cayless were playing?

If the answer is no, does that mean every other chairman is "doing nothing" like McManus is being accused of? Or perhaps there are more subtle changes in the league overall that mean you can't just say McManus is "doing nothing" for assembling a squad that sits above every other squad in the competition? And doing so having built a brand new stadium?

It's so depressing being a Saints fan sometimes, I seriously think our fan base comprises some of the biggest whining tarts in the world.

In theory the procurement of Walsh, Masoe, Amor would suggest improvement this season but we have proved to be very weak physically and mentally. We hit form from round 1 whilst other teams with the exception of Castleford strived to get up to speed, othe teams have declined in quality resulting in a more even competition for the current top 6 clubs.
For our team we don,t look properly physically conditioned for superleague which in my opinion has contributed to a lot games missed through injury.
Mentally we are very poor for most of the season, we can probably count on one hand the no of games where we have played with the right attitude for more than 60 mins in a game.

I don,t know how many saints fans have supported the club over a long period so that they have something to measure from. Take Saints Fan for instance who has supported saints yet has never experienced success, so everyone has a different time line to measure from.

We can only hope that we can get 3 or 4 homegrown players to come through quickly, Percival and Sav for starters then we might see improvements in the longer term.