Re: Cunningham : Tue May 20, 2014 11:50 am  

FearTheVee wrote:

I'm starting to fear the opposite - that people underestimate how important having people like Wellens and Cunningham around the club is. I get very nervy reading some people advocate a mass clearout of some of the proudest and most committed players the club has ever had.

Do we really think the attitude around the club would improve by getting shut of the likes of Wellens and Cunningham?

People are casting envious glances over at Wigan and the part played by Wane and Radlinski as home town boys, yet think our way to a more passionate club is cutting ties with our passionate past?

How can you fear the opposite. We are where we are and the people are in place. What track record do these people have outside of playing?

Did any of them go to another club and get experience elsewhere?

Not all players are great coaches and some of the best coaches in the world were not the best players.

Like I say we are already looking for a coaching position for Wellens, some want Longy back? Longy has at least gone elsewhere for some experience and to build up a proven record in coaching. Although now is probably not the best time for him to come in.

All these people were in place under Royce too. If a team performs badly the whole team needs looking at not just the figure head.

Re: Cunningham : Tue May 20, 2014 12:33 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

Wellens, when on the pitch, provides the sort of influence you would expect him to. He's not on the pitch enough in my opinion (we often look a different side when he is) and it's difficult for him to influence these car crash starts to games from the bench. Having said that, I dread to think what this team would be like without him there every day in training. You could see what it all means to him after the game at the weekend.

Cunningham and Wellens do not pick the team and do not decide whether to drop under-performing players. I get the feeling that if Wellens was picking the team this weekend we'd see some casualties.

We,ve just been discussing the very thing that Wellens should be 60-70 mins on the field and not 60-70 mins on the bench, no other team in the comp has the team captain watching the game for such a long period without direct influence.
Either that or don,t pick him at all in the 17 and give the captaincy to Walsh or Wilkin, attitude is a BIG issue from now on otherwise we are not mentally fit to compete in Superleague.

Re: Cunningham : Tue May 20, 2014 12:43 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

How can you fear the opposite. We are where we are and the people are in place.

Yep, and "where we are" (in my opinion) is a couple of tweaks away from a side that can genuinely challenge.

I don't think the tweaks required are getting rid of Cunningham and Wellens.

There are a lot of things I don't agree with, and they are down to Brown, not Cunningham/Wellens:
- Playing with your captain on the bench for 70 out of every 80 minutes
- Refusing to drop underperforming players to your feeder club
- Not instructing your forwards to carry the ball out of your own 20 in early tackles when being pinned down (I have no issue with wingers taking early drives, but not when you are penned in your own half for 25 minutes!!)
- Insisting on starting with a weaker pack when there are options on the bench, then seeing yourself massively behind early time and time and time and time again
- Openly claiming that games against big rivals are just another game
- Incessant swapping of halves week to week and even in game

and so on . . . .

Re: Cunningham : Tue May 20, 2014 1:32 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

There are a lot of things I don't agree with, and they are down to Brown, not Cunningham/Wellens:
- Playing with your captain on the bench for 70 out of every 80 minutes
- Refusing to drop underperforming players to your feeder club
- Not instructing your forwards to carry the ball out of your own 20 in early tackles when being pinned down (I have no issue with wingers taking early drives, but not when you are penned in your own half for 25 minutes!!)
- Insisting on starting with a weaker pack when there are options on the bench, then seeing yourself massively behind early time and time and time and time again
- Openly claiming that games against big rivals are just another game
- Incessant swapping of halves week to week and even in game.

Totally agree.

Re: Cunningham : Tue May 20, 2014 2:53 pm  

Hey up, is it Cunningham's time to get slaughtered now?

There's something clearly not right at the club. I've seen everything and everyone get blamed from players, coaches, kit man, the woman who works on till in ticket office...the problem isn't down to the players conditioning, fitness etc It's attitude, plain and simple. That comes from Brown. I have no idea why but there's unhappiness in the camp and it's up to Brown and nobody else to nip that in the bud...but for some reason instead he appears to be pouring petrol on the flames. He's not dealing with the problem and even though we're 1 point off top, that's deeply concerning.

Re: Cunningham : Tue May 20, 2014 2:58 pm  

Twentyman wrote:

Hey up, is it Cunningham's time to get slaughtered now?

There's something clearly not right at the club. I've seen everything and everyone get blamed from players, coaches, kit man, the woman who works on till in ticket office...the problem isn't down to the players conditioning, fitness etc It's attitude, plain and simple. That comes from Brown. I have no idea why but there's unhappiness in the camp and it's up to Brown and nobody else to nip that in the bud...but for some reason instead he appears to be pouring petrol on the flames. He's not dealing with the problem and even though we're 1 point off top, that's deeply concerning.

So its Brown's fault. Presumably before that it was Simmons' fault, then Potter's fault. Maybe it was Anderson who started the rot before 'getting the hell out of Dodge'?

It would appear that someone at St Helens clearly has a gift for seeking out inadequate coaches!

Re: Cunningham : Tue May 20, 2014 4:28 pm  

Blimey, what a terrible season you are having, only second in the table. Where will it end?

Re: Cunningham : Tue May 20, 2014 5:40 pm  

Pie and Proud wrote:

So its Brown's fault. Presumably before that it was Simmons' fault, then Potter's fault. Maybe it was Anderson who started the rot before 'getting the hell out of Dodge'?

It would appear that someone at St Helens clearly has a gift for seeking out inadequate coaches!

Ultimately, yes.

A strong coach would have a grip on things.

To the poster above, yes we're doing great in 2nd place however us fans are concerned about what's being said by our chairman, our coach and our captain. Them 3 are using the media to show the clear discontent in the camp. Are we supposed to just ignore what's being said because we're 2nd in table?

Re: Cunningham : Tue May 20, 2014 7:01 pm  

exeastender wrote:

Blimey, what a terrible season you are having, only second in the table. Where will it end?

Who knows? We now have another three players missing including Lomax and Walmsley. I would imagine a slide down the league table is what is coming next.

Re: Cunningham : Tue May 20, 2014 7:36 pm  

Think people forget Waney has been a coach to a lot of these players since they entered the game as young lads he was like a second dad to them and they still respect him today as they did then.