Re: BROWN..(yet again) : Tue May 20, 2014 9:48 am  

There are 3 points Id like to make here:

1) Saints simply cant afford to sack brown mid contract, unless he leaves by mutual consent, they will have to pay him the remainder of what they owe him and from all accounts, he is on a tidy sum and is (or close to being) the highest paid coach in Super League. If hes on say £200k a year, thats £300k that Big Mac will have to find in order to show him the door if he left now. If we had that kind of money floating around, we would have paid a transfer fee and signed a proper stand off at the begining of the season.

2) If Big Mac does get shut, the cold hard fact is that we will have had 3 coaches in the last 5-6 years that the players "dont respect" and as such, dont play with any effort. WHO DO THE PLAYERS WANT????? What type of coach is it they are actually looking for? It smacks of the old boys brigade and looking from the outside, it seems that unless your face fits with the senior players, you quickly lose the dressing room and you are on a hiding to nothing. What coach anywhere in the world would want to come into that kind of environment? Unless there is a wholesale clearout of these players and staff, we will be in the same never ending spiral.

3) If Brown left next week, who would we replace him with? There is hardly a barrel full of unemployed world class respected coaches waiting in the wings to coach Saints that fulfil our needs, and the needs of the players (see 2 above). We will almost certainly end up with Rushy again and then it will be a case of the team coaching the team. Is that what the players want? To be totally unaccountable to anyone other than themselves? Im sorry, but thats not professional sport. If you worked in a shop and hated your boss, would that mean that you would P1$$ all over the customer when they walked in the door? You would still be your best smiley smiley helpful self while you are on the clock. The same should apply to the players. It is the fans that pay their wages and they should want to provide the best customer experience possible. By simply not putting any effort into their performance just because they have no respect for their boss smacks of amateurism.

Re: BROWN..(yet again) : Tue May 20, 2014 10:07 am  

If Brown is staying it's time he started doing the job he is being paid to do. He needs to show some authority and put some professionalism into the players.

Re: BROWN..(yet again) : Tue May 20, 2014 10:41 am  

The Chief wrote:

There are 3 points Id like to make here:

And I'd like to retort:

The Chief wrote:

1) Saints simply cant afford to sack brown mid contract, unless he leaves by mutual consent, they will have to pay him the remainder of what they owe him and from all accounts, he is on a tidy sum and is (or close to being) the highest paid coach in Super League. If hes on say £200k a year, thats £300k that Big Mac will have to find in order to show him the door if he left now. If we had that kind of money floating around, we would have paid a transfer fee and signed a proper stand off at the begining of the season.

Firstly your grossly underestimating what brown is supposed to be on. Second, according to mike rush were well on the way to breaking even - as a club we seem very liquid in there ability to find cash - it's more of a case of a need to basis - finding 300k to sack brown is different to find 300k to pay a transfer fee.

The Chief wrote:

2) If Big Mac does get shut, the cold hard fact is that we will have had 3 coaches in the last 5-6 years that the players "dont respect" and as such, dont play with any effort. WHO DO THE PLAYERS WANT????? What type of coach is it they are actually looking for? It smacks of the old boys brigade and looking from the outside, it seems that unless your face fits with the senior players, you quickly lose the dressing room and you are on a hiding to nothing. What coach anywhere in the world would want to come into that kind of environment? Unless there is a wholesale clearout of these players and staff, we will be in the same never ending spiral.

Ahh the old guard? So whose that then? There has to be a time when the players not playing for the coach, and the coach simply failing to motivate the team.

The Chief wrote:

3) If Brown left next week, who would we replace him with? There is hardly a barrel full of unemployed world class respected coaches waiting in the wings to coach Saints that fulfil our needs, and the needs of the players (see 2 above). We will almost certainly end up with Rushy again and then it will be a case of the team coaching the team. Is that what the players want? To be totally unaccountable to anyone other than themselves? Im sorry, but thats not professional sport. If you worked in a shop and hated your boss, would that mean that you would P1$$ all over the customer when they walked in the door? You would still be your best smiley smiley helpful self while you are on the clock. The same should apply to the players. It is the fans that pay their wages and they should want to provide the best customer experience possible. By simply not putting any effort into their performance just because they have no respect for their boss smacks of amateurism.

Several jumps of faith made there - maybe the solution is to make the coaching team more than one person, then the job gets easier for all. As for "player power" it's the same thing that happened at Huddersfield, I'd suggest it's more familiar to brown then our group of players,

Re: BROWN..(yet again) : Tue May 20, 2014 2:00 pm  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

And I'd like to retort:
Firstly your grossly underestimating what brown is supposed to be on. Second, according to mike rush were well on the way to breaking even - as a club we seem very liquid in there ability to find cash - it's more of a case of a need to basis - finding 300k to sack brown is different to find 300k to pay a transfer fee.
Ahh the old guard? So whose that then? There has to be a time when the players not playing for the coach, and the coach simply failing to motivate the team.
Several jumps of faith made there - maybe the solution is to make the coaching team more than one person, then the job gets easier for all. As for "player power" it's the same thing that happened at Huddersfield, I'd suggest it's more familiar to brown then our group of players,

1) I said "say" £200k, regardless of whether is £200k or £500k a year, the point stands. It is not an insignificant sum and I doubt the club has the funds available to pay him off, whether we are close to breaking even or not. If as you say it was a "need to basis" why didn't we sign a 6 at the start of the year? It's been clear to anyone that since Leon Pryce left, we have been desperately in need of a stand off as well as a scrum half. We signed the latter but have relied on a crocked Wheeler, an inadequate Hohaia and a back rower in Wilkin to fill a glaring void in the team, which has failed miserably. It's almost making the Walsh signing a waste of money because he can't do it I his own.

2) It is well known that there are certain "senior players" at the club who any coach has to win over in order to gain the respect of the rest of the team. This is who I refer to as the old guard. I'm not naming names on here but it doesn't take a genius to work it out. It's obvious that the players aren't playing for the coach, they didn't play for Potter and they didn't play for Simmons. There is a pattern emerging and I would want to know what coach they would play for. Again a valid question.

3) I'm not doubting that Brown has an issue with "player power" and probably had the same issues at Huddersfield. The question is why do we keep appointing the same "type" of coach? Quiet, unassuming, laid back, passionless? However you want to phrase it, that's Brown, Simmons and Potter all over....simple fact is that doesn't work for this group if players. If we sack brown, the club aren't likely to be able get the man they want so settling for Rushy as a stop gap would be the most likely solution, and it won't cost anything more. I'm not sure how much of a leap of faith that is, it's been done before and is likely to be done again is it not?

Re: BROWN..(yet again) : Wed May 21, 2014 7:27 am  

saint87 wrote:

You mean like the Challenge Cup Semi Final in 2009. Which team did they beat on that day? I can't quite remember. I am pretty sure it was the cup holders and the team at the top of the league.

They lost 25-16 to Warrington in the final though!

Re: BROWN..(yet again) : Wed May 21, 2014 8:38 am  

If it's the players and this old boys brigade, why doesn't McManus get rid of them. The only people that can be in that group are Wellens and Wilkin from the playing side and Cunningham off the field. Sack all three today, pay them off.

If the old boys brigade are such a problem, why is nothing done? Why is Wello getting another contract?

Re: BROWN..(yet again) : Wed May 21, 2014 11:05 am  

People wanting Daniel Anderson are out of their minds. If anything, he under-achieved with the side he had. Never understood the love in with him at the time, and Paramatta still haven't recovered from him coaching them.

Re: BROWN..(yet again) : Wed May 21, 2014 2:07 pm  

Rommel wrote:

I'd rather bring in the wannabe Match commentator from redvee

He's rubbish. His knowledge of the intricate parts of Rugby League is really poor, as an analyst he should be able to tell the listeners things they didn't already know and I loved Mike Bennett in this role.

He hampers the Wish FM commentary for me and I'd much rather see a qualified professional in the role than just another fan.

Re: BROWN..(yet again) : Thu May 22, 2014 7:47 am  

roader wrote:

If Brown is staying it's time he started doing the job he is being paid to do. He needs to show some authority and put some professionalism into the players.

Exactly right.

Re: BROWN..(yet again) : Thu May 22, 2014 8:04 pm  

Let's look at it another way.

We've had potter, Royce, rush and Brown all take charge in recent years and all have failed!

I know the squads have changed over them periods but not by much.

Could it be the players just ain't good enough?