Re: A bit of perspective. : Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:01 pm  

The problem I have is people's perspective of how time works.

They look at the last call of the match and say well if that had not been given, Saints would have lost.

We say well what about the ball steal earlier in the match or the ripped ball off Walmsley. They respond by saying well that was earlier on, as if the rest of the match would have still lead to the Turner incident in the same fashion.

But time does not work like that, if Manu gets the ball steal or Walmsley gets a penalty for 2 on 1 tackles. Then the Turner even never occurs, you follow a different temporal path.

So the last call is not the crucial call, it's just another call which lead to multiple outcomes. Even if the Turner call would have been given as a knock on, there was over 2 minutes. This would have been enough time for 2 sets of 6.

People just don't understand time lines. You can't take one call in isolation. If one call is up for grabs so are the rest.

Re: A bit of perspective. : Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:07 pm  

When we play wigoons on friday we can near enough guarantee there players will move off the mark at the play the ball and we will be pinged for offside at the marker.
Whats happening is that the ref has too much do and the touch judges don,t help enough, certain refs can see the situations better than others this is where the word consistency comes in.
Saints have had many a game where the officials go out of there way to disallow a try, anybody remember the ridiculouis one in the Millward era where the video ref took the game 3 plays back to disallow a try.

Re: A bit of perspective. : Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:13 pm  

Saints were so lucky that a drop goal that missed wasn't given as a drop goal.

And when it's 24-6 at half time, and a team comes back to win, you know that's totally about luck, and nothing whatsoever about the team.

I forget, what was the "Lucky decision" we had to beat Leeds?

Re: A bit of perspective. : Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:52 pm  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

Saints were so lucky that a drop goal that missed wasn't given as a drop goal.

And when it's 24-6 at half time, and a team comes back to win, you know that's totally about luck, and nothing whatsoever about the team.

I forget, what was the "Lucky decision" we had to beat Leeds?

Don't forget the Ganson team talk to Tim Roby at wakey

Re: A bit of perspective. : Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:45 pm  

Sthelens RLFC wrote:

There's as many negative comments on the match thread last night as positive ones. Understandable given the start we made last night but I think there are certain people who almost enjoy seeing us lose so they can stick the boot in. If you'd told me after 9 games that:
We'd be 100% and still in the cup
We'd discovered our overseas half back signing was up to the job
We'd been through an injury crisis and survived it due to the quality of our youth systems
We'd rediscovered the knack of winning tight games that we so badly lost under Simmons/Potter
We'd made an incredible signing in Amor
We'd seen the emergence of Walmesley as arguably the best prop in super League
We'd watched Makinson and Swift turn their level of performance up a good few notches

I'm sure we'd all have taken it! Constructive criticism is fine. Moaning at the coach and players for a bad 40 minutes of rugby, team selection and tinkering (when we don't even know the reasons for selections/non selection) and picking on individual players for a couple of mistakes is embarrassing. We're not going to perform at 100% every week. That's sport. We've laid the foundations for a great season as it stands and we have reason to be very optimistic.

Yes I'm delighted that we are where we are but we shouldn't let that blind us to the fact that have scraped through against Leeds, Wakefield, Hudds and now Cas. I personally think that the results going our way has masked some less than great performances and if we'd not had the rub of the green a few times we be mid table by now. We are due a loss and I was convinced it was coming last Friday night. Having said that though I can't see anyone touching us when we get it right for a whole game.

Re: A bit of perspective. : Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:50 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

The problem I have is people's perspective of how time works.

They look at the last call of the match and say well if that had not been given, Saints would have lost.

We say well what about the ball steal earlier in the match or the ripped ball off Walmsley. They respond by saying well that was earlier on, as if the rest of the match would have still lead to the Turner incident in the same fashion.

But time does not work like that, if Manu gets the ball steal or Walmsley gets a penalty for 2 on 1 tackles. Then the Turner even never occurs, you follow a different temporal path.

So the last call is not the crucial call, it's just another call which lead to multiple outcomes. Even if the Turner call would have been given as a knock on, there was over 2 minutes. This would have been enough time for 2 sets of 6.

People just don't understand time lines. You can't take one call in isolation. If one call is up for grabs so are the rest.

Have you been nibbling on strange mushrooms?

Re: A bit of perspective. : Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:54 pm  

Th'ump wrote:

Have you been nibbling on strange mushrooms?

Everything he has said is correct?

Re: A bit of perspective. : Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:55 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

When we play wigoons on friday we can near enough guarantee there players will move off the mark at the play the ball and we will be pinged for offside at the marker.
Whats happening is that the ref has too much do and the touch judges don,t help enough, certain refs can see the situations better than others this is where the word consistency comes in.
Saints have had many a game where the officials go out of there way to disallow a try, anybody remember the ridiculouis one in the Millward era where the video ref took the game 3 plays back to disallow a try.

For many years, I've wanted the touch judge to control the offside at the PTB. The TJ would set the 10m mark and hold out his flag horizontally in front of him. As the tackled player plays the ball, he linesman will be checking to ensure the defensive line hasn't moved forward too quickly. The ref can stand next to and concentrate on the actual play the ball to ping any dicking about that goes on there and, after the ball is played, take a quick glance at the TJ to see if he's raised his flag. If he has, it's a penalty.

Re: A bit of perspective. : Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:58 pm  

What worries me is just the sheer consistency of people calling foul. Eventually, well be on the end of a poor decision that costs us, and people will just shrug their shoulders and say we used our luck - when in reality, our recent wins have nothing to do with poor reffing decisions (and even if they do, we've been on the end of them as well)

It's like playing at headingly, you hear them call at every decision, and you just know, eventually, one will go against you, regardless of what happens in reality.

Re: A bit of perspective. : Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:00 pm  

BackrowSaint wrote:

Everything he has said is correct?

Sorry, should have made myself clearer. I'm not doubting the validity of what he's saying. Just that talk of 'temporal paths', 'multiple outcomes' and 'time lines' reminds me very much of discussions I've had with friends in times long past when we've been scoffing the psilocybe or munching purple ohms.