Re: Wilkin : Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:00 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

Yes, so we'll choose our 6 from Hohaia (some running, but generally poor), Wilkin (no real running, but generally ok) and Wheeler (no real knees or legs and generally injured).

I think you're too harsh on Wilkin. There's two parts to any second-row/loose game,: running and tackling. In yards, I'd be surprised if Wilkin made fewer yards per carry on average than our other second-rowers, and I'd be astonished if other second-rowers made significantly more carries per game than him. In defence, Wilkin seems to be a key part of Saints' set-up, with him usually appearing to be near or at the top of the tackle count with Roby, when he plays in the pack. Couple that with an ability to offload effectively out wide to set a centre free, and I still think he's a much more valuable player than most of our back-three options.

With the addition of a half-back and stand-off next year (does Wheeler being fit count as a new player ?), I'd see a back-three of Soliola, Manu and Wilkin as being a very classy set-up indeed.

Re: Wilkin : Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:02 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

Yes, so we'll choose our 6 from Hohaia (some running, but generally poor), Wilkin (no real running, but generally ok) and Wheeler (no real knees or legs and generally injured).

A big issue with Wheeler (apart from the obvious) is that when he is injured he seems to pile weight on, a friend saw him at the weekend said he looks like he's put on about 3 stone!

Re: Wilkin : Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:17 pm  

Roy Haggerty wrote:

I think you're too harsh on Wilkin. There's two parts to any second-row/loose game,: running and tackling. In yards, I'd be surprised if Wilkin made fewer yards per carry on average than our other second-rowers, and I'd be astonished if other second-rowers made significantly more carries per game than him. In defence, Wilkin seems to be a key part of Saints' set-up, with him usually appearing to be near or at the top of the tackle count with Roby, when he plays in the pack. Couple that with an ability to offload effectively out wide to set a centre free, and I still think he's a much more valuable player than most of our back-three options.

With the addition of a half-back and stand-off next year (does Wheeler being fit count as a new player ?), I'd see a back-three of Soliola, Manu and Wilkin as being a very classy set-up indeed.

All fair points. I have nothing against Wilkin as a man or indeed as to his commitment to the Saints cause. His season playing (perhaps) out of position for the good of the team has shown what a great professional he is.

But, I just think his lack of physicality means other players are better. His tackle count is always high, but too often, he is failing to dominate the opposition and when he tries he often gives away a penalty.
There's also the fact that I assume he's a high earner and, imo, you need to be delivering more than a high tackle count to justify that. Anthoney Walker has shown he can hit some high tackle counts, for instance.

I think that a player like Flash, who is capable of a high tackle count, but can also do damage with his defence, is a better bet in today's game. Now that we use the fullback as an extra pivot, I don't see the need in a playmaker at 13.

Re: Wilkin : Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:40 pm  

I think Wilkin has more than proven his worth to the squad this season. I've been critical of him in the past but he's been superb for us, playing as the key pivotal man but also maintaining his high work rate in both attack and defence.

Next season he should be our loose forward with Manu and Soliola the back rowers. That gives us good balance. His work rate in defence and leadership is pretty vital in our team.

Re: Wilkin : Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:56 pm  

Blobbynator wrote:

I think Wilkin has more than proven his worth to the squad this season. I've been critical of him in the past but he's been superb for us, playing as the key pivotal man but also maintaining his high work rate in both attack and defence.

Next season he should be our loose forward with Manu and Soliola the back rowers. That gives us good balance. His work rate in defence and leadership is pretty vital in our team.

I think he'll go to 6 permanently. Whilst I think it doesn't give us the most balanced half back paring, Walsh will take the lions share of responsibility and Wilkin plays very well (in the halves) when he's on the front foot and there's a little less pressure.

We'll also get the added bonus that he can defend 3 in and let Percy (if selected) defend against centres rather than 2nd rows, which will probably help him a little.

Re: Wilkin : Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:14 pm  

Also Lomax will be providing most of the running for Wilkin and Walsh. So you still have 3 pivots, but a bigger pack too.

Re: Wilkin : Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:48 pm  

With Walsh at 7, I'm happy to have Wilkin at 6, yes he's not rangi chase, but he does a job and can defend like 3 halfbacks!