Re: Too old and too soft? : Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:22 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

Had there not been issues with Eastmond I don't think we'd be having this discussion. At that time we had Pryce as the experienced partner with Eastmond as the youngster coming in, had he still been here he'd be in his 3rd or 4th year as first choice half back (injuries permitting of course)

Again, the question is of availability. Seeing as Lance was signed as a half back, I presume we were looking for one at the time. No half back of any real quality has been signed by a SL club in the last 2 years. The club obviously thought that Lance was the best available.


Gardner I'll agree with, I think Meli has given us enough to be resigned until now, this should probably be his last year though.

I know what your saying but when a team is successful like we was, you can't rest on that, you need to build on it. M not saying bring in 4 players every season but players need to be recruited even if its for in two years time. We didnt do that and like I said all them years ago, it will bite us on the bum in years to come.

The centre situation has gone on since talau left, this is the first season weve had two players that play centre. We could have had Ratchford for nothing last year but instead we give Ade and Meli new deals. We could have used that money on Ratchford instead of the mediocre Turner.

Dobson was off contract the other year, Matty smith was off contract last year.

Like I said, IMO our recruitment and retention will be our downfall.

Re: Too old and too soft? : Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:31 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

For every Steve Menzies there are 20, 30 , 40 or even more players who can't hack it past the age of 34 - 35.

I think you can include some posters on here as well.

Re: Too old and too soft? : Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:32 pm  

St pete wrote:

I know what your saying but when a team is successful like we was, you can't rest on that, you need to build on it. M not saying bring in 4 players every season but players need to be recruited even if its for in two years time. We didnt do that and like I said all them years ago, it will bite us on the bum in years to come.

The centre situation has gone on since talau left, this is the first season weve had two players that play centre. We could have had Ratchford for nothing last year but instead we give Ade and Meli new deals. We could have used that money on Ratchford instead of the mediocre Turner.

Dobson was off contract the other year, Matty smith was off contract last year.

Like I said, IMO our recruitment and retention will be our downfall.

It's not will be, it has been our downfall really. I'm of the opinion that a club should always be in transition, if you hit the excuse of transition as we have something has gone wrong. How much has the stadium taken focus off the team? It happens and it appears to have happened to us. The GF appearances have papered over the increasingly big cracks that have been appearing in the squad really, maybe too much hope has been placed in academy products and players that have now become senior aren't of the same quality as those they replaced (I'm looking at you Wilkin). Wellens has been allowed to go on too long, but him leaving would mean another experienced player going leaving us with an even more inexperienced back line (though his transition could have been managed better, like Hodgson at Wire).

It can be turned round though, the players in the squad aren't bad players, we're just missing a few pieces.

Re: Too old and too soft? : Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:39 pm  

The biggest problem we have is we don't have a number 7. Lomax and Hohaia are utility players (full backs / hooker) who have been filling in. Gaskell is a 6 but a very inexperienced one. We could have the strongest backs and forwards in the league but without someone directing them around the park, it makes things very, very difficult. Not replacing Long, Pryce and Eastmond has killed us as an attacking team and until we go out and sign an out and out 7, we're stuck with utility players giving it a shot. Hohaia and Lomax will never be good enough at 7, but they're as good as we have right now.

We've got gaps in other areas of the squad - full back needs to be improved, our backs could be improved and we're a good prop short, but if we had a good 7 in our team, it wouldn't be as noticeable.

Re: Too old and too soft? : Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:18 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

Again, the question is of availability. Seeing as Lance was signed as a half back, I presume we were looking for one at the time. No half back of any real quality has been signed by a SL club in the last 2 years. The club obviously thought that Lance was the best available.

I've said this many times on here because Simmons at the time of Hohaia's signing said there were no halfbacks available to sign. However, Pete won't be convinced.

We have inexperienced halfbacks who have spent a year apart. We are back to this time last season with them. We need to stick with them and hope that Brown actually coaches them, Simmons stylee, rather than messes them around Rush-style, so that they can build their understanding again and their confidence. Hopefully as the season progresses we will see them controlling the game more, as they did towards the end of the 2011 season.

Re: Too old and too soft? : Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:42 pm  

Benidorm John wrote:

I think you can include some posters on here as well.

Aye BJ but we need to add 30 years onto those ages.

Re: Too old and too soft? : Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:32 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

I agree with the Wingers, the half back situation is a mixed bag of blame. Eastmond was a problem, but we did not help ourselves by telling Longy and Smith to take a hike, before negotiating with him.

Signing Lance as a half when we already had Gaskell, Wheeler, Lomax and Pryce was a bit of an error, had we not signed Lance, could we have kept Pryce???

The centre situation well Pete has said it longer than I've been on this site, it goes back to Talau.

However the pack should hold it's own and I'm not going to call time on our season when it only comes down to 4 games at the other end.

Some Leeds fans wanted McDermott sacked midway through both of the last 2 seasons and look how silly that looks now. I was expecting a highly defensive game today and from the score and what little I heard of it defenses were on top. I was looking at 20 - 12 to saints so 16 - 4 is a better than expected result. No need to be killing teams this early on. Build slowly, Leeds lost today, but they are not going to hit the panic button.

After Leon's injury record letting him go was the right option

Re: Too old and too soft? : Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:41 am  

brook40 wrote:

After Leon's injury record letting him go was the right option

I'm not convinced.

Leon with an injury, partnering Gaskell and Lomax.

Or Lance with no injury filling a hole for 4 years that he can't fill and Lomax and Gaskell having no one better to partner them.

When Eastmond was developing he trained and played alongside Longy. Same for Smith - who was also coached by Long.

These 2 are out in the cold and doing it the hard way. To be honest, I could even see value in trying to tempt Long out of retirement, not to actually get tackled but just to coach and direct play as a water carrier.

Having said all that it's still early in the season and they may improve, they did in 2011. It's always more competitive this early in the season, the 'weaker' teams are renewed and have full fit sides out. It's 2 games in and there is alot of rugby to be played yet.

Re: Too old and too soft? : Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:44 am  

Just noticed, that by next weekend there could be 0 teams with 100% success ratio.

Re: Too old and too soft? : Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:01 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

I'm not convinced.

Leon with an injury, partnering Gaskell and Lomax.

Or Lance with no injury filling a hole for 4 years that he can't fill and Lomax and Gaskell having no one better to partner them.

When Eastmond was developing he trained and played alongside Longy. Same for Smith - who was also coached by Long.

These 2 are out in the cold and doing it the hard way. To be honest, I could even see value in trying to tempt Long out of retirement, not to actually get tackled but just to coach and direct play as a water carrier.

Having said all that it's still early in the season and they may improve, they did in 2011. It's always more competitive this early in the season, the 'weaker' teams are renewed and have full fit sides out. It's 2 games in and there is alot of rugby to be played yet.

Looks at Leons last season with us,he played what 9 games ? Then picked up an injury not long after he started playing for Cats and missed a while there.His age/wage and injuried counted against him in the end.

Getting Long in coaching wise i agree with,his experience would be great for the youngsters.

As you rightly say its early days,we allways seem to start the season slowly then pick up.But for the halves to perform the forwards need to start running onto the ball and not taking it from 2 yards back at a standing start.Get the go forward going then we can see whats what in the backs.