Re: Manchester Massacre : Tue May 29, 2012 9:17 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

Give over. Gaskell's decision-making is a million miles ahead of anyone else's at the club. Yes, he's made mistakes. But all kids make mistakes. It's impossible not to make them if you're lacking experience.

Let's recall for a moment that Gaskell's distribution and kicking played a crucial role in us getting to the GF. Let's also recall that prior to the start of last season he had no experience whatsoever. The plan was to introduce him gradually to the first team (like Lomax and Wheeler). I doubt the club had any intention to give him more than half a dozen games until the Eastmond debacle dropped on us. Given our (unexpected) success I'd say his performances bordered upon the miraculous. Especially when you recall that it took Lomax TWO SEASONS (at least) to achieve a sufficient level of performance and consistency to command a regular first team shirt.

Spot on.

Re: Manchester Massacre : Tue May 29, 2012 9:36 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

Give over. Gaskell's decision-making is a million miles ahead of anyone else's at the club. Yes, he's made mistakes. But all kids make mistakes. It's impossible not to make them if you're lacking experience.

Let's recall for a moment that Gaskell's distribution and kicking played a crucial role in us getting to the GF. Let's also recall that prior to the start of last season he had no experience whatsoever. The plan was to introduce him gradually to the first team (like Lomax and Wheeler). I doubt the club had any intention to give him more than half a dozen games until the Eastmond debacle dropped on us. Given our (unexpected) success I'd say his performances bordered upon the miraculous. Especially when you recall that it took Lomax TWO SEASONS (at least) to achieve a sufficient level of performance and consistency to command a regular first team shirt.

Agreed. I think we have all seen enough of Lance to see he is never ever going to do it as SO. Time to put him on the bench and bring back the Lomasgaskell partnership again.
Lance can come on and give wello or robes a break or even move robes to 13 for 10 mins and let Lancie boy play at 9.............tbh...........I'm not sure I care what the "coach" tries but anything will be better than what happened on Sunday.

Re: Manchester Massacre : Tue May 29, 2012 9:41 pm  

Oh dear. How expectations have dropped!

The fact that so many defend him is laughable.

Re: Manchester Massacre : Tue May 29, 2012 10:06 pm  

saint at wire wrote:

Agreed. I think we have all seen enough of Lance to see he is never ever going to do it as SO. Time to put him on the bench and bring back the Lomasgaskell partnership again.
Lance can come on and give wello or robes a break or even move robes to 13 for 10 mins and let Lancie boy play at 9.............tbh...........I'm not sure I care what the "coach" tries but anything will be better than what happened on Sunday.

I can't make a case for Hohaia to be in the side at the moment let alone at such a pivotable position at 9, even if it's for 10 minutes!! You can lose a game in 10 minutes!! It's like we are trying to find positions for him in the side. He doesn't warrant a starting place on current form so shouldn't be in the side. I understand people saying that Roby needs to be rested, but can we actually afford to take him away from 9 or even off the field? To me that just makes us weaker, we need our best player on the field.

Re: Manchester Massacre : Tue May 29, 2012 10:23 pm  

Top Saint wrote:

Oh dear. How expectations have dropped!

The fact that so many defend him is laughable.

I'm afraid it's YOU who looks like the fool here. Gaskell is a kid. A kid who last season was thrust into the position of key decision-maker and tactical kicker despite the fact that he had no experience of first team football whatsoever and is still perhaps eighteen months away from being physically mature. Despite all this he was instrumental in getting us to the GF.

What kind of fan are you to demand we shouldn't "defend" any kid thrown into such an unenviable position? What kind of fan are you to think inexperienced boys are capable of matching the playing standards of grown men in the first team and if they aren't they should be tossed aside, ridiculed etc.? Sounds to me like you have a pretty twisted appreciation of what it means to be a supporter. Or you're a simpleton.

Re: Manchester Massacre : Tue May 29, 2012 10:38 pm  

Top Saint wrote:

Oh dear. How expectations have dropped!

The fact that so many defend him is laughable.

Who's had a better debut season in such a key position with such little support?

Re: Manchester Massacre : Tue May 29, 2012 11:05 pm  

Fans:
They do my head in a lot of the time too.
Its embarassing but every RL team has a couple of thousand morons supporting them. Apart from London who only have about 500 fans all together.

I can't imagine what it must be like at a football match.

Re: Manchester Massacre : Tue May 29, 2012 11:14 pm  

Top Saint wrote:

Oh dear. How expectations have dropped!

The fact that so many defend him is laughable.

Or the fact that so many defend him shows that you are making attacks with no basis for those attacks. No one would have to defend him if he was not being attacked. The fact that people call into question his game and assess him as though he was Shaun Edwards or Sean Long at their peak, just shows how skewed some peoples view points are.

Take a look at other halves in the league in their first year and tell me how much better they were. Take Leon Pryce in his first year at Saints, an experienced player but new to first grade halfback play. His contribution was average at best, but this was covered by the skills of others around him.

Brough in his first few years was very hit and miss yet he is now the toast of some.

I've no idea if Gaskell will prove us all right or wrong, but the fact that the league leaders are showing an interest to replace their leaving halves just shows the quality that the best see in him. We've shipped out more halves from Saints in recent years than I can recall and at this rate every team in SL will have a Saints, half bar Saints.

Long, Ellis, Smith, Eastmond, now Gaskell.

Re: Manchester Massacre : Wed May 30, 2012 7:42 am  

You can ball and shout as much as you want saying the players need to do better if there not good enough there not good enough and it will get worse even when brown comes in

Re: Manchester Massacre : Wed May 30, 2012 1:51 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

Who's had a better debut season in such a key position with such little support?

That début season had such low expectations put on it that average performances seemed good.

Mugwump wrote:

Top Saint wrote:

Actually never thought of that. My main area of concern with regard to Gaskell is his poor decision making at the line of attack. He has a tendency to take the wrong option on far too many occasions for my liking.

Give over. Gaskell's decision-making is a million miles ahead of anyone else's at the club. Yes, he's made mistakes. But all kids make mistakes. It's impossible not to make them if you're lacking experience.

Let's recall for a moment that Gaskell's distribution and kicking played a crucial role in us getting to the GF. Let's also recall that prior to the start of last season he had no experience whatsoever. The plan was to introduce him gradually to the first team (like Lomax and Wheeler). I doubt the club had any intention to give him more than half a dozen games until the Eastmond debacle dropped on us. Given our (unexpected) success I'd say his performances bordered upon the miraculous. Especially when you recall that it took Lomax TWO SEASONS (at least) to achieve a sufficient level of performance and consistency to command a regular first team shirt.

Any replacement coming in and doing an average job under those circumstances would look good. Also I think you place too much emphasis on his contribution to the point where you devalue the other players who took part in those games.The whole season was a backs to the wall grind of a season where the remaining fit senior players had to dig deep and bring the younger players through.

Gaskells true level was shown at the start of this season. As soon as fans expected performances he couldn't deliver.If he were the half back you all say he is we wouldn't have had such a bad start given that the first 6 games looked straightforward on paper. Also our revival began with his omission and the only team to beat us in that time is the Pies. Now I would not defend Hohaia for 1 second but Lomax started playing better when he was moved to half back.

Lee Gaskell may one day make a decent super league player but it won't be at Stand-Off.