Re: Is this season a write off? : Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:51 pm  

Top Saint wrote:

Take away the pressure and allow the Kids to learn their trade and maybe they might just surprise us all!!!!

Right. So why didn't you advocate this when Royce was still in place? That is, after all, what he was talking about when he referred to their mistakes and learning how to react to them.

Many Saints fans are congenitally unable to take away the pressure on anyone. Many fans were baying for Royce's blood because we lost four games by hardly any points at all and with some referee errors thrown in for good measure. Do you really think they are now going to be all sunny and relaxed? Do you think Saints fans are going to sit back and take three defeats against their biggest rivals without putting pressure on the team and new coaching set up?

I think the pressure is now even greater on the team. Not only have they failed to win for four games, they have brought their coaching staff down with them and upset those Saints fans who actually wanted Royce to stay (for whatever reason). And the pressure on Rush/Cunningham will be enormous. They have to turn it all around in a week.

Re: Is this season a write off? : Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:56 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Right. So why didn't you advocate this when Royce was still in place? That is, after all, what he was talking about when he referred to their mistakes and learning how to react to them.

Many Saints fans are congenitally unable to take away the pressure on anyone. Many fans were baying for Royce's blood because we lost four games by hardly any points at all and with some referee errors thrown in for good measure. Do you really think they are now going to be all sunny and relaxed? Do you think Saints fans are going to sit back and take three defeats against their biggest rivals without putting pressure on the team and new coaching set up?

I think the pressure is now even greater on the team. Not only have they failed to win for four games, they have brought their coaching staff down with them and upset those Saints fans who actually wanted Royce to stay (for whatever reason). And the pressure on Rush/Cunningham will be enormous. They have to turn it all around in a week.

I disagree that the pressure is on MR/KC. They're stopgaps, any I'd say that any improvement on the current performances will be considered a success for them. If they manage to get us bringing a couple of set plays to the pitch, it'll be a start.

Do you think we should have stuck with Royce?

Re: Is this season a write off? : Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:01 pm  

Cragganmore Kid wrote:

I disagree that the pressure is on MR/KC.

Fair enough. I think you might have been right had we been facing Broncos, Wakey and Widnes. But not with the matches ahead. Worst time possible to stick inexperienced stopgaps in.

Do you think we should have stuck with Royce?

Absolutely. The knee jerk reaction of Saints was not only ludicrous but an injustice to Royce who only a handful of matches ago had gotten us to within 20 mins of winning the grand final against all the odds and who had clearly made some progress already as our defence was coming along very nicely (bar Jamie's howlers). Hell, even Wigan gave Millward 11 games AND a 75-0 drubbing, and they are the world's worst in RL for sacking coaches surely!

Re: Is this season a write off? : Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:02 pm  

The 'League' is already a write off. We're too far back to make the top 4 already and will have to improve considerably to get above 7th. Given our run of fixtures it is not inconceivable that we'll end up in a position where we face an uphill battle to even get into the playoffs, especially as we don't seem capable of winning many away games.

But the cup is always a possibility. It's quite possible to get into the Final without playing anyone good if the draw goes our way.

Re: Is this season a write off? : Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:09 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Fair enough. I think you might have been right had we been facing Broncos, Wakey and Widnes. But not with the matches ahead. Worst time possible to stick inexperienced stopgaps in.

Absolutely. The knee jerk reaction of Saints was not only ludicrous but an injustice to Royce who only a handful of matches ago had gotten us to within 20 mins of winning the grand final against all the odds and who had clearly made some progress already as our defence was coming along very nicely (bar Jamie's howlers). Hell, even Wigan gave Millward 11 games AND a 75-0 drubbing, and they are the world's worst in RL for sacking coaches surely!

I thought he'd see the season out, and I'd have lived with it, but what was most alarming was the quality of performance. Awful defensive errors (I haven't noticed a dramatic improvement defensively as we've leaked soft tries in our 2 most recent games, and not all down to current scapegoat of choice Foster) and the most impotent attack I've ever seen in 27 years of watching Saints.

Had this been down to one or two poorly performing individuals, then I'd agree that RS had been harshly treated. However, when the substandard performance runs right through the side (with only Soliola and Roby able to say they had maintained their previous level of performance) there has to be some questions asked of the manner in which they are getting prepared for games.

I'm surprised he's gone at this point, and feel for the bloke, but can't say I'm disappointed. He wasn't the answer.

I'm not looking for a bite here, but I'd be interested to know why you're prepared to show far more patience to Simmons than you did to Potter during his tenure?

Re: Is this season a write off? : Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:12 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Fair enough. I think you might have been right had we been facing Broncos, Wakey and Widnes. But not with the matches ahead. Worst time possible to stick inexperienced stopgaps in.

Absolutely. The knee jerk reaction of Saints was not only ludicrous but an injustice to Royce who only a handful of matches ago had gotten us to within 20 mins of winning the grand final against all the odds and who had clearly made some progress already as our defence was coming along very nicely (bar Jamie's howlers). Hell, even Wigan gave Millward 11 games AND a 75-0 drubbing, and they are the world's worst in RL for sacking coaches surely!

Its the best time to get rid of him imo,if we see an improvement ( and i think we will ) in the next 3 games it will be a boost for everyone,players and fans alike.

Yes he got us to Old Trafford last year,but thats over,its in the past and counts for little now,the defence may of improved a bit but the alarming lack of attack is a worry and when after a game your coach says " im the coach and i didnt know what we were doing " then thats alarming,he should of fixed it during the game as he saw it unfold,but he left it another week and still did nothing.Im not one for advocating sacking a coach,but there is or was no confidence in him and his tinkering was unsetling.

Its a results and performance based industry and if the performance was there then he would still be here,but the performance wasnt there and he has to carry the can for that.

Re: Is this season a write off? : Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:26 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Wigan gave Millward 11 games AND a 75-0 drubbing, and they are the world's worst in RL for sacking coaches surely!

and that was the week after leeds had them off 70-0, not a good week


Is this season a write off? No, even if we dont make the grand final the experance the players will pick up going through this kind of 'bump' in the road will be invauleable as something most of the players have never had to deal with it before. there is no way we will finish out the top 8, we just wont, so Rush and Cunningham have the whole season to get the team ready for the play offs a stronger defence and a few different plays ball in hand.

we all know what the team is lacking, IMO a born and breed half back with some experance and a real hard as nuts prop who only knows one way.

and who knows Mr Anderson will be at langtree park this year, maybe he will stick around a faw weeks longer if the new man is not in place......who knows whats going to happen we just need to keep faith

Re: Is this season a write off? : Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:28 pm  

If MR & KC can use all of the subs,bring in a couple of extra plays and tell Lomax to stop skipping we have moved forward from Royce?

Re: Is this season a write off? : Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:47 pm  

Cragganmore Kid wrote:

I thought he'd see the season out, and I'd have lived with it, but what was most alarming was the quality of performance. Awful defensive errors (I haven't noticed a dramatic improvement defensively as we've leaked soft tries in our 2 most recent games, and not all down to current scapegoat of choice Foster) and the most impotent attack I've ever seen in 27 years of watching Saints.

I'd call conceeding fewer than half the points in the last two games to those conceded in the previous two as a dramatic improvement defensively! And yes, Jamie Foster has been responsible for most of the points we have shipped over the last few games (and you will see from on here that I have defended Jamie Foster, so I don't scapegoat him). Our attack was just fine against the Dragons. It was after that loss that we began to go downhill. But last season our attack took longer than our defence to come round and we were struggling with the same set of circumstances as this: a new ground and the loss of a talisman player along with an inexperienced team. Why should we suddenly turn into 2006 part 2 with those things to contend with, especially given the extra pressure of the stadium being our new home and all the expectations that come with that from McManus 'down' to the fans? Very unrealistic expectations but, as I say, congenital among many Saints fans.

However, when the substandard performance runs right through the side (with only Soliola and Roby able to say they had maintained their previous level of performance) there has to be some questions asked of the manner in which they are getting prepared for games.

You need to check the stats. Our lazy defenders have been exposed by the absence of Jammer, meaning that Hohaia for two games on the trot has made almost 60 tackles each game. No wonder the bloke couldn't run forward! Wello was outstanding against Bradford so maybe he had finally overcome his injury (he referred to it still twinging earlier in the season in a Saints programme). We even managed to score on the death against Bradford and the Sky team commentated on how we had begun to 'open up' towards the end. Who knows what might have happened next week.

I'm not looking for a bite here, but I'd be interested to know why you're prepared to show far more patience to Simmons than you did to Potter during his tenure?

Actually, if you scroll through the discussions at the time, I am being consistent. I gave Potter a full season as well. The difference between the two is that Royce has had to deal with pressures Potter never experienced (the move to Widnes and now a new stadium costing millions; Pryce injured for a whole season; Eastmond and his pratting around; loss of two talisman players; introduction of a raft of youth as opposed to a couple of them, etc) and we are following a similar pattern with Royce to the one we followed last year, with the extra pressure of no James Roby, and yet it came good in the end for us. Having seen a drastic improvement in our defence over the last two weeks, I had hopes of everything all coming good again this season, certainly once James Roby was back.

We also had a good attack during the second half of last year and won our last 10 games. Now we might not have been the most adventurous in attack, although some of our tries were fabulous to watch, but we have noobie halves and so cannot expect too much of them too soon.

But anyway, all of that is moot because Royce has been fired.

Re: Is this season a write off? : Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:53 pm  

Cragganmore Kid wrote:

I'm not looking for a bite here, but I'd be interested to know why you're prepared to show far more patience to Simmons than you did to Potter during his tenure?

im glad royce has gone from a team point of view, but like most i feel for the guy, but i never called for his head, saints havnt sacked a coach for a very long time for poor performance and i liked this fact.

the differance with potter? timing after DA it would of have been 4 years with the wrong man at the top and this is when the 'saints style' gets forgotten by the players it would of been a really long time not being trained the 'right' way the 'saints' way.

the other reason is what people see, the team look lost and lack any sort of idea or leadership i know this is a different matter BUT potter had Leon, KC, jammer and a year with long other than roby (who has not had his place filled because IMO this should be lances role) none have been replaced and the same goes with the forwards to many TOP BIG props have not been replaced in the team. this has finaly caught up with performances and royce has paid the price