Re: McManus out! : Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:58 am  

he supports man utd get shut.

Re: McManus out! : Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:02 pm  

I don't think our recruitment has been bad. We have gone in for big name, big money aussies less than Wigan, Hull, Warrington with usually better results.

Talent - playing AND coaching - is hard to come by. We took Gleeson and Wilkin from lower clubs and it paid off. It might yet do with LMS, it might not.

We've turned local academy talent (Graham, Eastmond, Roby) into world class players and turned others into top-flight professionals.

We've got to face the fact that other clubs have caught us up in many areas.

Re: McManus out! : Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:10 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

I've always wondered why so many players have recently chosen to back out of deals at Saints at the last minute. Sure, it's happened before. But I don't recall it ever happening so often. Of course, McManus may not be responsible. But given that we certainly needed at least some of those players I wonder whether we could have done more.

Er, it may be that the other clubs offered more money AND have recent silverware on the table. Both those factors have enabled Saints in the past to attract big name players to our team. We don't have either to offer at present and so it is unlikely in a foot race against Leeds, Wigan and Wire (the big spenders) that we are going to win.

Remember, two of our players came to Saints because Royce Simmons was our coach. They stated that clearly in their acceptance speeches. I rather think they wouldn't do that if they believed him to be a crap coach. That so many people on here presently do is not because he is but because people are seeking a reason for our present predicament and it is easy to blame the coach. However, the players have to take responsibility for what we have been watching this season. They give away penalties; they don't find touch with kicks; they don't catch kick offs; they miss tackles; they get sin binned; they panic; not one of them is prepared to lead on the field. Royce doesn't coach any of that into their game.

Our senior players need to man up. Only Wello did so against Bradford and he made a real difference. Had our other senior players done so we might have won regardless of the errors of our inexperienced players. In fact, those errors might never have occurred as within the more positive atmosphere of the senior players doing their jobs properly and with enthusiasm, they may have been more confident and so not fallen victim to trying too hard and getting it wrong.

Re: McManus out! : Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:15 pm  

As for McManus ... I would love him to walk up to the senior players and kick their backsides. And I include LMS in that group because he's been playing utter rubbish this season so far but has enough experience to be considered among the senior group.

McManus is a great business man and what he has done for our club in terms of its financial survival, not to mention the wonderful new stadium, means I'm not going to criticise his recruitment policy. He had to make a decision: the stadium or the players. We are not a rich enough club to finance both. The players had to go on hold for the sake of the stadium but even so, this group of players is clearly better than the results show. I say clearly because (a) last year they got to a GF, and (b) we are losing by such small margins, usually as a result of stupid errors (like Puletua dropping the ball with the tryline begging).

Re: McManus out! : Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:18 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Er, it may be that the other clubs offered more money AND have recent silverware on the table.

This might be relevant if it weren't for two facts - 1) Warrington had no silverware to speak of (what's more, they had no nearly success to speak of) when they began their policy of recruiting better players. and 2) they can't spend over the cap, which McManus has repeatedly stated we are spending up to.

Re: McManus out! : Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:58 pm  

I could drive coach and horses through the salary cap if I was a wealthy club owner.

I suspect McManus might just be too smart to engage in that arms race. Who knows about some others though?

Re: McManus out! : Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:02 pm  

McManus has had to do battle on all fronts and has probably got his priorities right long term. Obviously the new stadium means he's had to take his eye off the ball, he believes in the youth development which created a "false dawn" bringing in the youth type of player in during the injury ravaged season.
It all means we have yet another transition season, now that priority 1 is out of the way he can re focus on the right players in the medium term. The only problem is that some of the contract lengths are too much for certain present individuals, which means there is no short term fix.

Re: McManus out! : Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:30 pm  

Whilst the genesis of our troubles can be traced back to the decision to rely on kids two/three years before they were physically mature the nail in the coffin was allowing the Eastmond saga to drag on six-to-eight months longer than it should.

We should NEVER have been in a position where we were starting last season without knowing whether Eastmond would stay. McManus should have set an absolute deadline at the mid-point of the season before (sign or leave). That way we had time to look for a replacement scrum half. Even if it were only a short-term solution.

Unfortunately, the mistake was complicated by Lomax who admittedly did ok and convinced us we needed no such replacement. What we didn't realise is part of his success against other teams can be attributable to unfamiliarity rather than his inherent ability as a scrum half. Teams failed to pick him up precisely because they had no history on which to base a defensive strategy. After a season they had all the data they needed and now he's finding himself shut down and lacking the creative ability to think out of the box.

Re: McManus out! : Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:40 pm  

McManus - very shrewd, lots of trophies, built us a new stadium.

Simmons - a career assistant coach with a history of failure as a head coach who has taken us on our worst streak since the 80s and playing some of the most dour rugby I've ever seen from a Saints side. I'm out of my seat when I see us offload these days, as I know I might not see another for a month.

Hmmmm, tough choice.

McManus has probably made mistakes in recruitment, like all chairmen do from time to time over the course of a decade plus. But let's not pretend the squad is being coached and used to its optimum and our problems are down to playing personnel alone, it clearly isn't the case.

I loved Royce's latest genius approach - wait until we look like we might be building some momentum, then replace one of the halves with Royce's incredible "back on the bench" (a ploy so ingenious its sheer brilliance is yet to be appreciated by the likes of Smith, Maguire, Brown etc), this time an under 20's full back. That went really well and will have done Ashe the world of good.

Re: McManus out! : Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:43 pm  

Adeybull wrote:

I could drive coach and horses through the salary cap if I was a wealthy club owner.

I suspect McManus might just be too smart to engage in that arms race. Who knows about some others though?

Saints have some very rich men on the board though.

I had really high hopes for this season. Even though we'd lost Jammer I was impressed by the signing of Laffranchi and Hohaia, which coupled with the promising kids we blooded last season, promised much.

To say it has been a nightmare season so far wouldn't be an understatement for me. As mentioned in numerous other posts and topics, the club looks to be in totaly and utter disarray on a coaching and playing level. For me, the buck stops with the coach.

Where we once was solid and well drilled we are now all over the place and confusion reigns. There is a massive lack of confidence running through the squad, as wide as Perry's gut, and yet we are still constantly chopping and changing the team week in week out.

I was willing to give Simmons the time to sort it out but it doesn't look - on the surface at least - that anything is changing. Players look confused and devoid of any kind of form or confidence.

As for McManus, everything he has done for this club far outweighs the Simmons situation. We don't have a god given right to win everything every season, and Chairmen will make mistakes with recruitment just like anyone else.

At the end of the day, if it wasn't for Big Mac, we wouldn't be having this debate now.

We wouldn't be here.