Re: Time for a clean break? : Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:31 pm  

Depends on how many players. One or two players are never going to see eye to eye with every coach. It would take a bulk of player around 10 to make a move on a coach. Any less than that could just be down to factions and infighting.

A big thing there is that regardless of what a player thinks of the coach, come Friday night what ever they think of the coach they are there to play for the club and the fans.

Sia and TP may hate the coach, they , may love the coach, but they still put the effort and the energy in.

How much time did the players waste last night wandering to scrums when we where 6 points up.

When Tickle started taking his kicks, that time would have been precious to us, to try and close the gap.

Re: Time for a clean break? : Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:36 pm  

I don,t think we need to press the panic button just yet, we,ve got 21 more games to get the wheels back on the Wagon. My gut feeling is that KP and RS might not be on the same wavelength as they don,t know which is the best team and they don,t seem to have any game plan whatsoever especially in defence.
As everyone as highlighted full back and scrum half needs fixing sooner than later, if Royce won,t drop Wellens then try him out at loose forward to communicate the team from the middle of the park. We,ve got to free up Lomax from the pressures of trying to boss the team around he,s got to be full back. That leaves Gaskell and Wheeler in the halves.
Would like to see Daniel Anderson back next season with Sean Long as his assistant.
This season might be a holiday one from any cup final appearance but I,m sure our demise is only short term.

Re: Time for a clean break? : Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:43 pm  

St pete wrote:

Do you think the chairman should act if the players think he's poor?

The Chairman will only act if he thinks he's poor or that there's a number of performances or trend that affect the commercial viability of the business. Not based on emotional or knee jerk reactions. Player power is a disease - look at Chelsea and I very much doubt he wouldn't take other factors into consideration.

I know one of the players very very well and trust him as a discerningly honest individual and I've been told things I would never repeat to anyone. If the players think he is poor then that's not something I have ever been told - as I suspect that's what you are inferring.

Re: Time for a clean break? : Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:44 pm  

What is Daniel Anderson upto? Simmons did great getting you to another GF. Working with the worst Saints side for 16+ years. Need to let him mould a new side.

Re: Time for a clean break? : Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:56 pm  

Fans will always move before anyone else.

Fans will sign players up to 4 year contracts off the back of 4 games, they will sack players off the back of one game and will hale coaches and deride them withiin the space of a sentence.

Fans have no need to account for anything other than their own emotions, but I doubt we will sack a coach mid-season based on reults alone, unless those results start to infere an irreversable set of fortunes.

I know saddened has asked how bad does it have to get as we have not won in 4 games. That's the lack of perspective a fan has. 4 games without a win = end of the world. For those running a club, you have to allow for periods without a win. It's not about the run of form, but the distance from an end of season unacceptable result.

So I would imagine for the board a sacking would be an inability to make the top 8, this would take to about 2/3rds of the season to find out. Hence in a final year Royce ain't going to get sacked. There is a difference between an unacceptable result and a sacking result. I imagine the board would find falling outside the top 4 unacceptable, I think in terms of getting a new contract. Royce would need top 4 and a trophy of some description.

So you can look at it in many different ways, but to sack Royce would require more than just unacceptable form over a short period of time.

A good example is the first 6 games in 2007, we had 3 losses out of 6. But DA was not sacked, he was given time to change it around and we finished top 2, with the CC.

Re: Time for a clean break? : Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:08 pm  

now now girls, your all getting urselves in a kufluffle, calm down calm down, 4/4 wow i didnt expect that.

Re: Time for a clean break? : Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:24 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

Fans will always move before anyone else.

Fans will sign players up to 4 year contracts off the back of 4 games, they will sack players off the back of one game and will hale coaches and deride them withiin the space of a sentence.

Fans have no need to account for anything other than their own emotions, but I doubt we will sack a coach mid-season based on reults alone, unless those results start to infere an irreversable set of fortunes.

I know saddened has asked how bad does it have to get as we have not won in 4 games. That's the lack of perspective a fan has. 4 games without a win = end of the world. For those running a club, you have to allow for periods without a win. It's not about the run of form, but the distance from an end of season unacceptable result.

So I would imagine for the board a sacking would be an inability to make the top 8, this would take to about 2/3rds of the season to find out. Hence in a final year Royce ain't going to get sacked. There is a difference between an unacceptable result and a sacking result. I imagine the board would find falling outside the top 4 unacceptable, I think in terms of getting a new contract. Royce would need top 4 and a trophy of some description.

So you can look at it in many different ways, but to sack Royce would require more than just unacceptable form over a short period of time.

A good example is the first 6 games in 2007, we had 3 losses out of 6. But DA was not sacked, he was given time to change it around and we finished top 2, with the CC.

Excellent post and as I posted above, I completely agree.

This may be a crude analogy given that it's a different sport but as we speak Spurs are losing 1 - 0 at Everton. If they get beat they will have lost 3 games on the trot and they have been dire so far. Will they sack Harry Redknapp?

Saints should never become a sacking Club. If we do we'll never even stand a chance of attracting a top coach.

Re: Time for a clean break? : Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:37 pm  

Allez wrote:

The Chairman will only act if he thinks he's poor or that there's a number of performances or trend that affect the commercial viability of the business. Not based on emotional or knee jerk reactions. Player power is a disease - look at Chelsea and I very much doubt he wouldn't take other factors into consideration.

I know one of the players very very well and trust him as a discerningly honest individual and I've been told things I would never repeat to anyone. If the players think he is poor then that's not something I have ever been told - as I suspect that's what you are inferring.

I'm also very good friends with people at the club and my best mate is at the club and my opinion is he's not the greatest coach. (that's my opinion and not anyone I know at saints)

Re: Time for a clean break? : Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:13 pm  

It may only be four disastrous performances but Potter wasn't given that long before the "your fired" finger was twitching under the desk.

I think I speak for most Saints fans, we aren't like the Wigoon fans of the 80's & 90's who almost expected success, we have tasted the bridesmaid tag enough to know that you savour every cup you win, and we have done that many times since 1996. BUT for saints fans it's more than that, we expect the team to play in a manner that is both successful and entertaining. If we lose in a GF to a better team, and play well, you'll get no complaint from me, but it seems like the team have descended into mediocre and that is bad for business in the long term. For Eamon, it's about ensuring those season ticjet holders turn up with their cash to renew next season to keep the club on a sound footing.

Even in this very harsh financial climate, with job losses and increased living costs, the fans have kept their end of the bargain, turning up and paying their money to show their support for what Eamon has done. Two of the three jigsaw pieces are in place but the club is going to need the team producing the goods to keep the fans paying their money.

It's not just about winning, it's the manner of the performances that are the most concerning. Last night, Lance got caught with no runners on three or four occasions. You had both half backs taking the line on from first receiver with no option runners whatsoever. You had Gaskell hitting lead runners on the last tackle (Dixon caught with the ball), plus Wheeler ran it himself on the last too and got caught.

The issue for Saints is that they have based their style of play around a quick PTB and short passes around the ruck. As soon as a referee allows a team to slow Saints PTB by just 1 or 2 seconds (as Hull did last night), then we don't seem to have a plan B.

We don't seem to be capable of attacking with any flair for the most part. All tries are tries but the majority of ours, against the better defensive teams, are from within 20m of the opposition line. We haven't got a Darren Albert who can score from 90m out. When Meli put JF through a hole on the 40, he panicked and put in a pointless kick that was made far too early (McKinnon had it well covered) which indicates to me a massive confidence issue. Im pretty sure it was third tackle too so could have tried to beat the full back and work off the back if the break/field position.

I've already mentioned Wellos lack of a pass with the 3 on 1 in the corner and his compounded error in dropping Perrys offload, which ended up costing us 6 points and gifting a further 6 to Hull.

Now I'm sure the players don't do these things on purpose but it does seem to indicate a little more than just a minor dip in form.

Re: Time for a clean break? : Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:43 pm  

St pete wrote:

I'm also very good friends with people at the club and my best mate is at the club and my opinion is he's not the greatest coach. (that's my opinion and not anyone I know at saints)

And I don't disagree with your assessment of him one bit - I have held that view since the day we appointed him knowing the reputation (or lack thereof) he has as a coach in Australia. However, sacking him now would cause more problems than it solves unless there's an absolute top class coach with a pedigree available. As far as I am aware there isn't. I don't think Eamonn will get caught up in the fans hysteria because we have lost 3 games.

Anyway, onwards and upwards. Am looking forward to next week.