Re: Au reviour Leon - Where do we go from here? : Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:11 am  

With Leon, jammer and Kyle gone we simply must be way under the cap next year unless we have been reckless with our new signings wages. That said we will still be comfortably top 4 IMO

Re: Au reviour Leon - Where do we go from here? : Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:24 am  

No1 Saint wrote:

But giving hiho a 4 year deal was good?

We won't know that until he settles in here I guess.

Some people on here I think were saying that Hohaia looked like a panic buy at one stage. That's kind of not looking the case now I guess!

We'll be fine. It's always better having players at the club who want to be at the club. Leon didn't want to be here so he is better gone.

Re: Au reviour Leon - Where do we go from here? : Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:26 am  

No1 Saint wrote:

in short backwards.

Hiho is a fullback not a halfback. Gaskell and Lomax are very promising but need time and an experienced partner to progress. Wellens is past his best now and wont be getting much faster next year.

Losing Pryce = very bad for Saints ... unless we bring in some much needed EXPERIENCED quality.

Correct on all counts. I can't believe some of the utter crap I read on here by people who think we are playing fantasy rugby and that 'anything goes' and 'we'll be fine' We maight be bloody fine but we ain't gonna win anything. We need recognised specialists in their strongest positions. Laffranchi ain't a prop - we need a prop. Hohaia ain't a half back and boy do we need a half back. Before anyone flames me they are both good players but not what we need right now.

I am more excited by the Flanagan signing than any of the others and that tells you something.

More than anything we need an on field leader in a key position - we ain't got one.

And we need a top coach if we are gonna be competitive.

We are back to buying and being second rate and trying to dress it up that it is ok. It's not.

Re: Au reviour Leon - Where do we go from here? : Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:30 am  

Rughead wrote:

I think we'll go with 1. Wellens, 6. Lomax and 7. Hohaia. It's not ideal as Hohaia's had an awful season, but I can't see us not playing him considering he's taking up a quota spot. Keeping Pryce, aside from him being a quality player, would have given us more depth and another option in the halves/at fullback.

Thing is hiho isn't a halfback he just fancies playing there. I always fancied playing scrumhalf but that doesn't mean it would be a good idea ... For context I ended up as a prop

Re: Au reviour Leon - Where do we go from here? : Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:31 am  

Allez wrote:

Correct on all counts. I can't believe some of the utter crap I read on here by people who think we are playing fantasy rugby and that 'anything goes' and 'we'll be fine' We maight be bloody fine but we ain't gonna win anything. We need recognised specialists in their strongest positions. Laffranchi ain't a prop - we need a prop. Hohaia ain't a half back and boy do we need a half back. Before anyone flames me they are both good players but not what we need right now.

I am more excited by the Flanagan signing than any of the others and that tells you something.

More than anything we need an on field leader in a key position - we ain't got one.

And we need a top coach if we are gonna be competitive.

We are back to buying and being second rate and trying to dress it up that it is ok. It's not.

Blimey.

OTT response or what!

It's not like Leon going was a bolt out of the blue. Saints have prepared for the eventuality by recruiting Hohaia and by putting faith in Gaskell and Lomax and Wheeler. Gaskell and Lomax will be that much better next season with the experience of this season behind them, and Simmons has worked with Hohaia down under so knows what the lad will bring to us.

I think Saints have approached this very well. They can't force a player to stay and so they have recruited and planned to take account of key positions becoming vacant. There is nothing to indicate that we will be worse next season than this. What will make a difference IMO is whether our backroom staff plus the players themselves can retain their fitness.

Re: Au reviour Leon - Where do we go from here? : Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:33 am  

No1 Saint wrote:

Thing is hiho isn't a halfback he just fancies playing there. I always fancied playing scrumhalf but that doesn't mean it would be a good idea ... For context I ended up as a prop

Hohaia has played at 6 before but has not played at 7 since his junior days. He said that on his interview with Radio Murkeyside just after he had signed. Fullback isn't his chosen position and he was told to play there by his coach. That's what Hohaia himself said.

Re: Au reviour Leon - Where do we go from here? : Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:37 am  

More than a bit annoyed with him TBH and not optimistic we are going forward as a club on the playing front.
It seems that for the next few years at least Eammon is happy to repair the finances even if this means us being a top 6 team and not a top 2 team.

Pryce was quoted this morning as saying:
"They were patient with me when I was out injured and their support when I came back will be something I will always remember."

Its a strange way of repaying this loyality/support.
Its bit "thank you now feck off".

Re: Au reviour Leon - Where do we go from here? : Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:46 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

I think Saints have approached this very well.

But to be fair you are a fawning, gushing shower of positivity. You were one of the people telling us we'd win trophies this season.

The cold, harsh truth is we're out of the running, not just for this season, but probably for the next two or three. The club put a lot of faith in the young players, but bar Lomax they aren't good enough. Solid SL level players yes, but SL winners, no.

We're noticably behind this season and are losing our best forward and our best back. We've not replaced either of them yet.

In context we're the 3rd best team. With this news today and the poor (And it is poor) recruitment for next season, we face a battle for 3rd/4th/5th.

We've gone from being a club that demanded success to one that is totally willing to accept mediocrity. Once you get into that frame of mind it is very difficult to get out of, look at Bradford.

Re: Au reviour Leon - Where do we go from here? : Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:50 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

Hohaia has played at 6 before but has not played at 7 since his junior days. He said that on his interview with Radio Murkeyside just after he had signed. Fullback isn't his chosen position and he was told to play there by his coach. That's what Hohaia himself said.

I'm sure I read he played in the halves as a junior but not in senior. By halves I mean 6 or 7. I played fullback when I was 10 , that doesnt make me a fullback now. As far as I can tell Hohaia has played pretty much all his professional Rugby as a fullback and a succession of coaches have picked him there .. does he even have a kicking game?

Re: Au reviour Leon - Where do we go from here? : Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:50 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

Saints have prepared for the eventuality by recruiting Hohaia and by putting faith in Gaskell and Lomax and Wheeler. Gaskell and Lomax will be that much better next season with the experience of this season behind them, and Simmons has worked with Hohaia down under so knows what the lad will bring to us.

Well, I don't accept mediocrity easily - never have done and I don't dress things up for what they are not but the good thing about this board is that we all have a different view.

If your definition of OTT is my view of the facts then I respect your opinion.

In my view, Saints have prepared for letting go our one and only recognised halfback (as you say, not a secret) by recruiting a full back of some years standing regardless of his long term history to bring on the youngsters at half back. A full back who wants to be a half back. And one who, from the commentaries in the NRL , has had a very very poor few seasons indeed. That's not a good reference. It doesn't make him a bad player but he's out of form and we're gonna play him out of position.

Do you think that's well prepared, astute or well planned recruitment in one of the most important positions on the field?

We have ZERO recognised half backs at the club next season save for Gaskell who I think we all agree the jury's out on.

So - with no recognised half backs, a second rower recruited to replace probably the UK's number one prop and our pack leader, and a solid workhorse second rower recruited for next season you still think we're gonna 'be fine'? Thats not a side that has a strong spine; indeed the only strong component part of our side's spine is Roby. I'm not being negative - just calling it how I see it and I'd actually be over the moon if I am wrong.

In addition and as I have said many times, we don't have an 'A' coach who can get the best out of the same crop of players. I am not sure that I trust Royce's judgement enough yet on player positioning and ability.

In my 40 years of watching, playing and coaching this game I have never seen a side win anything without recognised half backs or a pack short of front rowers.

I admire your optimism - just don't quite see where you get it from in the face of seemingly overwhelming opinion, professional and message board alike, that we are taking retrograde steps at a time when we should be kicking on.

I'm willing to have you a fair bet if you are up for it?