Re: St Helens Licence Grade : Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:22 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote: There you are, http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/ldp ... -27129723/ You really are a nasty myopic little troll. Good effort to bring up a newspaper article that is nearly 12 months old BUT - the RFL criteria I have listed below and at no point is the fact that a club is losing money anything to do with anything. Clubs that meet all of the A Grade criteria across these five areas have been be awarded an A Grade licence. For example, those clubs that have been awarded A Grade Licences have: - Commercial income of at least £1m in each of 2009 and 2010. - Average weekly home crowds of at least 10,000 in either the 2008, 2009 or 2010 seasons, and an average home crowd of at least 9,000 in the other 2 seasons. - At least 5,000 season ticket holders in 2009 or 2010. - A stadium with an operational capacity of at least 12,000, with at least 12,000 of the stadium capacity under cover and at least 5,000 seats (all of which are under cover and available for use). - Audited turnover of at least £4m for the financial year ending in 2009 and unaudited turnover of at least £4m for the financial year ending in 2010. - A Business Plan which includes budgeted profit and loss accounts and cash flow statements covering the four year period 01/01/2011 to 31/12/2014. - All NI/PAYE/VAT payments up to date, with the exclusion of any ongoing investigation or recent extraordinary assessments. - Achieved a top eight finish in any of the 2008, 2009 or 2010 Super League competitions. - A four-year Player Development Strategy covering 2011 to 2014, with a clearly defined pathway from school to club to Service Area to Professional Club. The plan must stipulate budget and staffing structures. - Demonstrated over the course of the 2009 or 2010 seasons that their community activity has engaged at least 10,000 individuals with the club. In fact if it were, every club would be downgraded ,your beloved Wigin included if losing money was a criterion. All this has shown once again is that you spout opinions as fact. They are only a fact in your one eyed view of the world.

Rogues Gallery wrote: There you are, http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/ldp ... -27129723/ You really are a nasty myopic little troll. Good effort to bring up a newspaper article that is nearly 12 months old BUT - the RFL criteria I have listed below and at no point is the fact that a club is losing money anything to do with anything. Clubs that meet all of the A Grade criteria across these five areas have been be awarded an A Grade licence. For example, those clubs that have been awarded A Grade Licences have: - Commercial income of at least £1m in each of 2009 and 2010. - Average weekly home crowds of at least 10,000 in either the 2008, 2009 or 2010 seasons, and an average home crowd of at least 9,000 in the other 2 seasons. - At least 5,000 season ticket holders in 2009 or 2010. - A stadium with an operational capacity of at least 12,000, with at least 12,000 of the stadium capacity under cover and at least 5,000 seats (all of which are under cover and available for use). - Audited turnover of at least £4m for the financial year ending in 2009 and unaudited turnover of at least £4m for the financial year ending in 2010. - A Business Plan which includes budgeted profit and loss accounts and cash flow statements covering the four year period 01/01/2011 to 31/12/2014. - All NI/PAYE/VAT payments up to date, with the exclusion of any ongoing investigation or recent extraordinary assessments. - Achieved a top eight finish in any of the 2008, 2009 or 2010 Super League competitions. - A four-year Player Development Strategy covering 2011 to 2014, with a clearly defined pathway from school to club to Service Area to Professional Club. The plan must stipulate budget and staffing structures. - Demonstrated over the course of the 2009 or 2010 seasons that their community activity has engaged at least 10,000 individuals with the club. In fact if it were, every club would be downgraded ,your beloved Wigin included if losing money was a criterion. All this has shown once again is that you spout opinions as fact. They are only a fact in your one eyed view of the world.

Re: St Helens Licence Grade : Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:56 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

But we have a stadium though - Widnes. And that quite clearly fits the criteria as Widnes are in Superleague.

I think it will be the crowd issue that left us with a Grade B. We didn't get the minimum 9000 for this season to be awarded an A.

No its mainly the stadium - I think that last time we exceeded the 9K but still got a B and according to RL Express the lack of a decent stadium was quoted by the RFL last time for having a decent stadium.
(I'm sure you need both attendance targets and a decent stadium to get an A and I don't think borrowing someone elses stadium counts)!

Re: St Helens Licence Grade : Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:17 pm  

saint at wire wrote:

No its mainly the stadium - I think that last time we exceeded the 9K but still got a B and according to RL Express the lack of a decent stadium was quoted by the RFL last time for having a decent stadium.
(I'm sure you need both attendance targets and a decent stadium to get an A and I don't think borrowing someone elses stadium counts)!

Last time it WAS the stadium, yes. But this time it cannot be the stadium because we are no longer in it. It is a deceased stadium. It is no more. Our stadium for this season is Widnes and the RFL can clearly see our new stadium on the website. (And didn't they recently visit it as a possible venue for the World Cup? It looks better than KR already!) I just can't see it being our stadium.

Re: St Helens Licence Grade : Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:17 pm  

I don't think borrowing counts.

I think if the stadium was not ready for this season, but was ready for next, then it was a B

But maybe Saints will publish the details when they get them off the RFL

Re: St Helens Licence Grade : Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:19 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

But maybe Saints will publish the details when they get them off the RFL

Er, do you really think they will?

I'd be very shocked if they did. That would be a sign of them communicating, and Saints are not known for their communication skills - not with fans, anyway.

Re: St Helens Licence Grade : Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:32 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

But we have a stadium though - Widnes.

Re: St Helens Licence Grade : Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:35 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote: There you are, http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/ldp ... -27129723/ So as they say "people in glass houses ..............." Wigan Rugby League Ltd had according to the latest published accounts (2009): 1) lost £540,000 on turnover of £4.58M 2) is insolvent to the tune of £3.3M 3) has a working capital deficit of £4.08M 4) a £2.0M loan due to be paid by October 2010 (is that why there are no 2010 accounts filed?) 5) "going concern" statement in accounts relying on the support of its parent co which is worth exactly £1 Obviously to get an "A" does not need financial success.

Rogues Gallery wrote: There you are, http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/ldp ... -27129723/ So as they say "people in glass houses ..............." Wigan Rugby League Ltd had according to the latest published accounts (2009): 1) lost £540,000 on turnover of £4.58M 2) is insolvent to the tune of £3.3M 3) has a working capital deficit of £4.08M 4) a £2.0M loan due to be paid by October 2010 (is that why there are no 2010 accounts filed?) 5) "going concern" statement in accounts relying on the support of its parent co which is worth exactly £1 Obviously to get an "A" does not need financial success.

Re: St Helens Licence Grade : Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:36 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Last time it WAS the stadium, yes. But this time it cannot be the stadium because we are no longer in it. It is a deceased stadium. It is no more. Our stadium for this season is Widnes and the RFL can clearly see our new stadium on the website. (And didn't they recently visit it as a possible venue for the World Cup? It looks better than KR already!) I just can't see it being our stadium.

AFAIK provided your new stadium is ready for start of 2012 season then the stadium related parts of bid are judged on the new stadium rather than where your currently playing. average attendance is judged over 2008-2010 seasons. If you dropped below 9k in one of those seasons you could have dropped a point there. surprised you werent an A tbh. Was expecting us (bradford) to drop to a C but looking at criteria only obvious ones we fail on are the 12k under cover (we're alright for covered seats) and attendances over this license period. 2nd one at least should be addressed before 2014 licenses.

Re: St Helens Licence Grade : Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:39 pm  

Judging from what was posted in the League Express it was your crowd numbers that affected the grade, though I suspect that will change once you move to your own ground.

League Express: Saints remain a major force in Super League but has fallen below the 9,000 crowd limit this season that would guarantee it an A-grade licence.

Re: St Helens Licence Grade : Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:42 pm  

mat wrote:

AFAIK provided your new stadium is ready for start of 2012 season then the stadium related parts of bid are judged on the new stadium rather than where your currently playing.

Fair enough. It just can't be judged on a stadium that is now just a pile of rubble with some houses growing on it! (The comments of the RFL did relate to Knowsley Road)

average attendance is judged over 2008-2010 seasons. If you dropped below 9k in one of those seasons you could have dropped a point there.

The average was 10,000 for the years previous but 9000 for this year (presumably reduced because it isn't a full season). We are bound to have dropped drastically this year, well below 9000. We have only managed two matches with 10,000 fans present! (Wigan and Wire, strangely enough!)

I think the licensing system generally is a mystery but the grading more so. Not least because that dump of a stadium in Leeds has been given an A Grade and why?