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Re: 2012 - What would you do? : Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:43 pm  
It's early in the year so the thoughts could easily change on this. I think several of them still need to earn a new contract. Flannery and Gardner come into this bracket. Both going quite well so far, but it's a long season. I'd keep our options open on those positions. Flannery in particular may end up being replaced as he is a quota player.

I'd offer Puletua a new one year deal especially if Graham does decide to leave. We would then need to recruit another prop IMO rather than two.

Pryce and Wilkin will both likely receive offers too, but I'm a bit concerned that Pryce is picking up some bad injuries these days. Like Sculthorpe he's a very talented player, but can we get him on the field long enough? We're in the market for a half anyway, so we may end up replacing Pryce and Eastmond with one quality half back alongside Lomax with Gaskell in reserve. We shall see.

I anticipate the following will leave:

Eastmond
Graham
Flannery

I think we'll offer Gardner a new one or two year extension. I hope we offer Puletua a one year contract but it's whether he wants to carry on and Wilkin will get a new three year deal IMO. Pryce will possibly leave also, but I'm hopeful he'll prove his worth on the injury front. He's still a classy player, I'm just a little concerned.

As for replacements, I'd be looking at another prop, a half back and a back - Winger or Centre. I don't anticipate Wellens will move roles yet. If Puletua leaves we'll definitely require another new prop too.
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Re: 2012 - What would you do? : Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:46 pm  
Saddened! wrote:
Saints are in a pretty tough position. We have so many established players off contract this season. Eastmond, Pryce, Graham, Puletua, Wilkin, Flannery, and Gardner (Plus Armstrong who will obviously be released) I believe. That means we are very, very likely to have to replace Jammer from the NRL as there just aren't enough decent English props about and I don't think the few that are good enough are off contract anyway. With Tony P also possibly going, that would leave us having to sign two big forwards. I expect Wilkin, Gardner and Flannery to get new deals if they want them as they are all solid first teamers and actually bettering them would be a tough ask and an expensive one.

That leaves us with the problem of Lomaskell. About a month ago when Kyle confirmed he was selling his soul I think most people would have advocated going and recruiting a top class NRL half back. Stevo and a few more in the rugby league press were convinced at the time that we'd already signed a replacement for Eastmond and that he was an international half back. Royce also came out with a statement numbering the players on the shortlist to replace Kyle.

Now, having seen the buds of life emerging in Lomax and Gaskell will the club still push on with that and spend a big chunk of the cap on a half back? Or has either or both of the young guns shown enough promise to shelve that idea? Leaving it until later in the season probably isn't an option as most players worth signing would have sorted their futures out by then.

Personally I would like to see some effort to align the number of outgoing senior players with an equal amount coming in. But knowing Saints that isn't very likely. In an ideal world I'd like to see us sign at least 2 big forwards (1 if TP doesn't leave) and a proper centre for once so we actually have two in the side like you are meant to. I would also like to see Leon signing for another year or two. This would mean Lomaskell would get enough game time but with an old head about the place. How likely is it that Pryce will stay?



Eastmond for me it looks like he will be replaced with Lomax, he may not have the hype of Eastmond but has a better all round game. Kicker, passer, runner, whether he is an organiser will take time just like it does for all halfbacks.

Pryce I would have said he was odds on for Bradford at the start of the year, but given his injury run it maybe a gamble Bradford are no longer willing to take if they are building for the future. It will do Saints no harm to let him decided for himself, trying to offload him will put the player down, trying to keep him will increase the signal to Bradford that he is ok and increase his price. Bradford may lose interest given the injuries or lower their offer to him making it cheaper for Saints to keep him and better for Pryce to stay. It's all in the balance this one, 50/50 and in Pryce's hands.

Graham, I would imagine he has gone, the draw of the NRL maybe too much even if Saints offer alot of cash, the guy is great and if we can keep him fantastic but we can't spend everything on him. Clubs have invested in 1 player before to find their squads cannot match others. We need balance not all the money in one basket. If he goes good luck to him, we will need a replacement but a like for like replacement is unlikely, so long as they are good and work hard that will do me.

Puletua would really like to keep this guy, obviously there is the same balance arguement under the salary cap as there is for Graham but with the strength of the Oz dollar we may need to pay more to keep him. Suppose it depends on whose watching him in Oz.

Wilkin this is a tough one, personally I like him at loose, but I know different people have mixed views on the guy. I don't think he is critical to the future of Saints and maybe replacable but whether you would get anyone with the same desire to perform for the Saints and the versitility is debatable.

Flannery last year I would have said goodbye, but at 2nd row rather than loose he looks a much better player, he was never a loose for mine and if he keeps up his form I'd have no worries resigning

Gardner playing well but will be dependant upon cash and what he wants and what the club have left under the cap.

All in all the player recruitment will depend upon each other, when you have a salary cap you can't keep everyone. I would not agree that all that leave need others bringing in from outside. Basically that's saying the academy can't cut it. I disagree. Eastmond is replaceable with Lomax, Pryce well it's in the balance we may need to buy in but depends how gaskell progresses and whether Pryce decides to stay.

Prop wise we have no immediate candidates so for Puletua and GRaham if both go then yes we will have to buy in.
Wilkin, flannery and Gardener I recon you can replace 2 out of those 3 from within. We are good at 2nd rowers. But also if Pryce stays he could cover loose as can Moore. Lots of people can play wing. The centre position is again debatable it maybe Meli and Wheeler will cover that with Wheeler as the long term option, but it's Wheelers to lose for mine.

If he can't handle it then sure buy in, but you have to give the chances or you may as well disband the academy. Currently we are 1 point off the top spot with a team that has had a poor start and is playing alot of kids. I think they are playing for places and not making a bad fist of it.

Lets see how they get on and not just buy in for buying in's sake. We bought in to replace Tommy God. That never worked, we never replaced him. We have never replaced Scully at loose by buying in.

There is alot of interdependancy with the players whose contracts are up so we'll have to see how some of them pan out.
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Re: 2012 - What would you do? : Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:01 pm  
Saint Simon wrote:
This is gardeners testimonial year, have a nice game at the end of the year for a few quid, then go and ruin another teams wing for a few years!


I second that emotion.

He has to go he just has to. If he was any good he would have matured into a decent centre by now. Offers nothing other than disappointment. Goodbye.

Graham seems to be off. Fair enough. Hope saints don't offer him the too much to stay.Nobody is worth taking too much of the cap. Scully is the perfect example.

Hope Tony P stays another year.

Flannery. Always solid and cheers for good performances in the centre when you contract was due.Goodbye.
Salford would love a "SOO" second row forward.

Pryce. Too much time out. If he wants a big payday then Bradford can oblige.

Wilkin. Needs to be offered sensible money.

Meli - Move to be a line breaking second row and centre cover for Wheeler.

Shopping List - Prop , HB , Winger or 2.

Prop - ? any british props OC.
HB - I will use the "R" word - Ratchford.
Winger - Williams from Manly has been mentioned. He would be great.
- AN Other with pace. Broughton , George etc. As long as its not Gardner.
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Re: 2012 - What would you do? : Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:33 am  
Obviously we should do everything we reasonably can to keep hold of Graham. I'd also be inclined to hold on to Pryce for another couple of seasons, presuming his injury problems aren't long term. Puletua has been magnificent for us, and if he can be persuaded to stay then that would be a huge bonus.

Flannery has done a decent job for us, but at a time when we have young back rowers coming out of our ears it just doesn't make sense to keep him here taking up a spot on the overseas quota any longer.

Gardner seems to be showing a bit of form this season, which is nice, but I don't think we can seriously think about offering him a new deal.

Flannery could be replaced from within, which would free up a bit of cash. We should be looking for either a young promising English threequarter (e.g. Owen) or a high profile Aussie/Kiwi to replace Gardner. As for the other three, if any of them do leave then we'll just have to do our best to get like for like. They'll be three of our highest earners, so if/when any of them leave we will have spending power to replace them.
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Re: 2012 - What would you do? : Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:55 am  
foz11 wrote:
Personally I would like to see Tony Puletua given a fresh deal along with Gardner. Chris Flannery is a waste of a overseas quota spot and surely we could replace him with one of our own youngsters like Dixon, Ashurst or Magennis. If Jammer leaves then a big Prop will obviously have to come in to replace him. I would also like to see a top quality left centre signed up because we have never replaced Willie Talau since he left the club.



I'm all for youth but sometimes players need replacing with proven quality from outside the squad. It's not wise to go all out youth as it don't always help the young lads and dont help the club. Bringing new players in also freshens the squad.

I think Tony p will go around again in 2012.

If jammer and flannery do leave, I think we need to recruit top class quality players to replace them. We've no young props coming thru and IMO Dixon, ashurst and magennis are not the answer yet.

I'm all for replacing ade with foster.
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Re: 2012 - What would you do? : Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:28 am  
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 277040.stm

Wilkin has still one more year left on the five we gave him :?:

And why you all want to get rid of Flannery i don't know he's been one of our best players this season far better than Soliola :CRAZY:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 277040.stm

Wilkin has still one more year left on the five we gave him :?:

And why you all want to get rid of Flannery i don't know he's been one of our best players this season far better than Soliola :CRAZY:
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Re: 2012 - What would you do? : Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:55 am  
Rommel wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/6277040.stm

Wilkin has still one more year left on the five we gave him :?:

And why you all want to get rid of Flannery i don't know he's been one of our best players this season far better than Soliola :CRAZY:



IMO hes taking up a overseas spot that could be used on a better and younger player.
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Re: 2012 - What would you do? : Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:05 am  
St pete wrote:
IMO hes taking up a overseas spot that could be used on a better and younger player.


With the exchange rate as it is v's the Aussie Dollar you ain't going to get the better younger players coming over here?

Flannery is a solid performer and can cover plenty of positions? Better than Ashhurst,Dixon and Magennis
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Re: 2012 - What would you do? : Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:08 am  
Rommel wrote:
With the exchange rate as it is v's the Aussie Dollar you ain't going to get the better younger players coming over here?

Flannery is a solid performer and can cover plenty of positions? Better than Ashhurst,Dixon and Magennis


He's solid enough but offers nothing with the ball in hand. Saints should look what's about and how much it would cost to bring in a better younger but if not I'd be happy to keep him rather than lose him and be replaced by magennis, Dixon or ashurst.
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Re: 2012 - What would you do? : Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:11 am  
Rommel wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/6277040.stm

Wilkin has still one more year left on the five we gave him :?:

And why you all want to get rid of Flannery i don't know he's been one of our best players this season far better than Soliola :CRAZY:


I got the info from the contracts sticky at the top of the page. That obviously needs updating.

As for Flannery I think he will get a new deal. Bettering him would be a hard task when we have got more important areas to focus on.
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