Re: Kyle-Is he really a Saint or sinner?? : Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:13 pm  

St-Bernards Head wrote:

Obviously recently Kyle has recieved a huge amount of criticism and I was just wondering whether it is justified or whether we may be being a bit harsh.

The criticism of him is not harsh, no. He may be 'just a 22 year old' but he is also a home-owning, salary earning 22 year old who, for a second year running, decided to undertake his contract negotiations via the media. He was either too stupid or too arrogant not to learn from his first attempt at doing that, which drew criticism at the time. Having triggered all the media hype up he then extends it by talking to the media after he has announced his decision while opting not to engage while on the pitch. Taking on the line, tactical kicking, tackling, chasing ... these are all things he can do, and do well. He doesn't need years more experience for those things as he was doing them very well last season.

No, the criticism was not harsh. The booing and language some people used at the match on Friday wasn't nice though. But the criticism was justified.

Re: Kyle-Is he really a Saint or sinner?? : Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:16 am  

Issues like these often make me think about the fundamentally WEIRD and paradoxical nature of fandom. With my rational head on I'd argue the kid has every right to put himself first and earn as much money as he can. It goes without saying that Rugby - whether it be League or Union - is a young man's game. Kyle has - perhaps - a ten year window to develop his career and strengthen his financial position before the curtain closes and he is dumped into the "real world" where (depending on whether he chooses to take a part-time programme in some field or another during his playing days or moves into coaching) he'll be at a significant disadvantage because he has no experience of any kind except rugby. It's a fear that must terrorise all league pros in the dead of night and function as a powerful motivator to look after one's interests.

It would be ignorant (and inhuman) to think that League players - even the better paid ones - are pampered pre-madonnas, totally immune to the phobias that dog regular people and so I thank the kid for what he's given Saints up to this point and wish him all the best in the future (which will hopefully include numerous humiliations of big name Union opponents).

Meanwhile, my Freudian Id is bouncing off the inner walls of my skull in a state of foaming apoplexy. It argues that in the context of the world and our place within it "Sport" makes no sense whatsoever. This is because it is a fictional paradigm that we construct in order to ESCAPE FROM reason and consequently Kyle - like all great fictional villains on paper and in films - deserves every ounce of vitriol that's been doused upon him and more besides. By attempting to put myself somehow above the petty rivalries and tribalism in order to find some kind of moral or ethical truth - some right WAY - I'm forgetting that the only sense that can be made out of sport is that it doesn't make sense. And that's the point.

Where I stand between these two warring factions I don't know. Both hold a certain appeal but neither offer sufficient explanation taken in itself whenever situations like these crop up.

Re: Kyle-Is he really a Saint or sinner?? : Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:11 am  

I genuinley believe that Bath must now realise that they have made a mistake by signing Eastmond, not because of his ability, but because of his attitude. the attitude he's now showing at Saints he can show at Bath just as easily if things don't go his way.

Re: Kyle-Is he really a Saint or sinner?? : Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:43 am  

With Kyle it is that "chip" on his shoulder and believing far too much the well oiled publicity machine behind him! still doubt he has a real heart! hope I am wrong but not sure he will fit into Union!

Re: Kyle-Is he really a Saint or sinner?? : Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:06 am  

I love the game of RL and as such want to see the best players whoever they play for. I am disappointed at Eastmond's decision and his reaction to the fans of the club that have helped him through his career. If the contract negotiations were carried out through the press how much was this down to his agent? and the dragging out of the decision would do nothing to endear him to either St Helens or Bath, again how much was this down to his agent? His agent/advisors should be giving him sound advice that protects against ending up in the position we have now reached.
However sad, all parties are now better off terminating his contract and moving on, although, I sense that this is what Kyle has wanted from the onset of the saga.

Re: Kyle-Is he really a Saint or sinner?? : Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:10 am  

Rhino Bucs wrote:

However sad, all parties are now better off terminating his contract and moving on, although, I sense that this is what Kyle has wanted from the onset of the saga.

On the contrary, what Kyle probably wants is to be released with the entirety of his contract paid up. Saints will want to terminate his contract so they can offload him for free.

Re: Kyle-Is he really a Saint or sinner?? : Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:32 pm  

Somewhere in the middle.

I don't remember any direct quotes from him prior to the signing being announced, so I don't see how he has conducted the transfer through the media.

It looks to me like he's been given bad advice and made himself look an booty afterwards, I'm even doubtful over the interview. How has it been cut? What is the editor's agenda? Views on the website afterwards? They got that. What if he said 'RU is a bigger game, but I'll always be grateful to RL' and the second bit is cut? The media's job is to sensationalise and I'll bet the editor knew that there was plenty of anger directed towards Eastmond by Saints fans. Of course he could have been told 'RL fans hate you anyway, butter up your future employers.' Or he could genuinely believe that RU is a bigger game.

He walked off after the Wire game after getting abuse, he took himself away from the situation, I'll bet that plenty of those shouting loudest about him not clapping them where venting their spleen during the game and would have done more had he stayed on the pitch. He made a gesture after the Quins game, when he'd received more abuse (I heard some of it due to it being quiet, I bet I didn't hear all of it), which has been reported on here that a player said it was to say he'd gone for the money. He'd have been better to do nothing, but he's a 22 year old bloke receiving screaming vitriol from 30+ year old men and women, how many others wouldn't react? They are sportsmen, not angels.

There may be numerous reasons for the way he is playing, form, fitness, inexperience, coaching, the way the coach has set up the team, and yes, even a fear of injury. But of course the fear of injury and not trying come to the fore, because that's the easiest way of fans to justify themselves to shout more abuse at him.

He's not helped himself, but he's also probably not deserved all of the criticsm thrown his way.

Re: Kyle-Is he really a Saint or sinner?? : Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:36 pm  

I actually feel quite sorry for Kyle Eastmond. At the end of the day, he's only human and to be getting vile abuse from his own fans every time he takes to the pitch is bound to frustrate him. When he's on the pitch in your team's shirt you should support him - he's hardly gonna have a stormer of a game when he's getting called every name under the sun, is he?

Re: Kyle-Is he really a Saint or sinner?? : Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:39 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

He's not helped himself, but he's also probably not deserved all of the criticsm thrown his way.

At the end of the day - if you're going to sign for a union club mid way through a league season, you're going to have to come out fighting in your next few appearances to prove your heart is still in it.

It would be very easy to prove too. Take the ball up more than you usually would. Make consecutive tackles in a set. Clap the crowd (regardless of what you're hearing). Just generally put in as much effort as you can - RL fans recognise effort.

What you can't do is the bare minimum, run off the pitch without acknowledging the fans (or worse make gestures) and expect everybody to clap you off the pitch and wish you well. He's brought a very large proportion of the stick on himself and I can't say I feel too sorry for him.

Being young is no excuse, we have other young players who do and always have handled themselves better than Kyle, even before his signing for Bath.

A bit of humility and effort and he could have made it through the season, made a contribution, and left with mostly well wishes. Unfortunately, he appears too self involved to appreciate how he should behave in the circumstances.

Re: Kyle-Is he really a Saint or sinner?? : Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:41 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

At the end of the day - if you're going to sign for a union club mid way through a league season, you're going to have to come out fighting in your next few appearances to prove your heart is still in it.

It would be very easy to prove too. Take the ball up more than you usually would. Make consecutive tackles in a set. Clap the crowd (regardless of what you're hearing). Just generally put in as much effort as you can - RL fans recognise effort.

What you can't do is the bare minimum, run off the pitch without acknowledging the fans (or worse make gestures) and expect everybody to clap you off the pitch and wish you well. He's brought a very large proportion of the stick on himself and I can't say I feel too sorry for him.

Being young is no excuse, we have other young players who do and always have handled themselves better than Kyle, even before his signing for Bath.

A bit of humility and effort and he could have made it through the season, made a contribution, and left with mostly well wishes. Unfortunately, he appears too self involved to appreciate how he should behave in the circumstances.

Sums it up perfectly