Re: Pryce going nowhere (as if we hadn't guessed!) : Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:21 pm  

jdrocket wrote:

There is no guarantee he will play like last year. Especially after a neck injury. don't have to take that risk with a pile of cash

And the neck injury need not be a factor at all. Jon Wilkin had exactly the same injury and exactly the same operation. He was playing just as enthusiastically after his op as he was prior to his op. Granted, form comes and goes and there are no guarantees of anything in life. But I'm very happy that he is staying for 2011. He was a joy to watch last season. I'm hoping for more of the same from him.

yes you do. If Lomax is the best you got. You really do. Especially when a soggy piece of newspaper could put both of them out of action for the season.

You are criticising Lomax and Wheeler for their injury records, which has become boring in its regularity from some posters on here. I suggest you haven't seen them play very often if you believe either of them is anything other than a very talented player. That is what they are. But they need more experience and consistent playing time before they are able to step up on a fulltime basis and hopefully they will get that this season (although hopefully not because we are crippled by injuries again).

Re: Pryce going nowhere (as if we hadn't guessed!) : Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:41 pm  

Made up Leon staying on but as stated that was always going to be the case for this season. He would be a massive loss. Whether or not he is here in 2012 remains to be seen, with Jammer, Leon and Kyle out of contract no doubt we will have to recruit and recruit well. If Bradford have a poor season would Leon seriously consider moving back if they again miss out on the play offs, home town or not?

Re: Pryce going nowhere (as if we hadn't guessed!) : Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:43 pm  

2012 could well see us without Eastmond and Pryce. Wheeler and Gaskell maybe?

Re: Pryce going nowhere (as if we hadn't guessed!) : Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:51 pm  

Carlos Alberto wrote:

2012 could well see us without Eastmond and Pryce. Wheeler and Gaskell maybe?

There is no way we'd go with such an unexperienced combination thats barely played first team. If both went I imagine we'd bring in a top quality half and let one of the youngsters fill the other role.

Re: Pryce going nowhere (as if we hadn't guessed!) : Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:20 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

And the neck injury need not be a factor at all. Jon Wilkin had exactly the same injury and exactly the same operation. He was playing just as enthusiastically after his op as he was prior to his op. Granted, form comes and goes and there are no guarantees of anything in life. But I'm very happy that he is staying for 2011. He was a joy to watch last season. I'm hoping for more of the same from him.

You are criticising Lomax and Wheeler for their injury records, which has become boring in its regularity from some posters on here. I suggest you haven't seen them play very often if you believe either of them is anything other than a very talented player. That is what they are. But they need more experience and consistent playing time before they are able to step up on a fulltime basis and hopefully they will get that this season (although hopefully not because we are crippled by injuries again).

we won't turn this into a slinging match.

As you say form comes and goes. We can all see the future, to a certain extent, in this case. Leon is not gonna play another season at saints after this. It is looking a lot like that. He hasn't signed a new contract, which is the giveaway. If he signs one tomrrow, it is a moot point. But if he goes this seaosn without signing one. Saints have lost out on a pay cheque and, as others have mentioned, are left with an inexperienced player joining Eastmond or, as is looking likely, two inexperienced players in the halves. What i am saying is surely the desire is to sell pryce and take a simliar risk buying someone else and have the extra year with them. Leon is injured and, although a pro, wants to be at bradford. He may not be at his best next year. It is a risk keeping him, one which is more likely not to pan out in the long term.

In my opinion keeping him should rely on the guarantee of a GF win.

And i am not saying that Lomax and Wheeler are poor in their position. I would say they are inexperienced. Lomax has several times been caught out in several positions last year. Namely the Grand final. I personally don't know his natural position, but i think he isn't ready for a being the go to man in the halves. similar story with wheeler, but maybe not as much. Additionally, i am not having a snide go. It is difficult to deny that there are a group of youngsters at st Helens, including Wheeler and Lomax, as well as Eastmond, that are injury prone.

i hope you are not crippled by injuries and would love to eat my words and see Lomax tear up Wigan at the Halton stadium and the DW.

Re: Pryce going nowhere (as if we hadn't guessed!) : Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:59 pm  

jdrocket wrote:

And i am not saying that Lomax and Wheeler are poor in their position. I would say they are inexperienced. Lomax has several times been caught out in several positions last year. Namely the Grand final. I personally don't know his natural position, but i think he isn't ready for a being the go to man in the halves.

Lomax is a stand off by position and play. As for the Grand Final, he had never played with Meli before and so of course he was caught out, and it was his GF debut and he had just been out for three weeks injured while a fully fit Gardner was dropped. But that was Potter for you.

similar story with wheeler, but maybe not as much.

Wheeler has an excellent rugby brain. He is also strong and tackles well. He actually plays centre well but his position traditionally has been stand off.

It is difficult to deny that there are a group of youngsters at st Helens, including Wheeler and Lomax, as well as Eastmond, that are injury prone.

Wheeler and Lomax in particular but it is also worth noting that they have both played the majority of their games under Potter. It will be interesting for me as a Saints fan to see if Simmons' training regime improves our fitness. Wheeler had one bone injury (deep slice to the shin I think it was) but other than that his injuries were all muscular. The injuries to Lomax were all muscular. That maybe weak muscles or it may be poor training/conditioning. Time will tell. As for Kyle, he clearly had problem ankles as he bust one and then the other and neither had the time they needed to heal, for whatever reason. He has had operations on both ankles now and so it may be that he is through the worst of it in terms of persistent injury.

i hope you are not crippled by injuries and would love to eat my words and see Lomax tear up Wigan at the Halton stadium and the DW.

No idea what we will be like against Wigan or anyone else this season as with three new players and a bunch of outgoing players plus a new coach, a new home ground and a new training facility it's like we are a new team. Any or all of those changes could undermine us or refresh us. Haven't a clue. But I would sure love a season without a ridiculous injury count. Last season went way beyond.

Re: Pryce going nowhere (as if we hadn't guessed!) : Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:49 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Lomax is a stand off by position and play. As for the Grand Final, he had never played with Meli before and so of course he was caught out, and it was his GF debut and he had just been out for three weeks injured while a fully fit Gardner was dropped. But that was Potter for you.

Well i think it may be too early to make a decision either way. In fact i was having a discussion with a saints friend last week who had paid the tenner to put lomax' name on her shirt. I was questioning why when i wouldn't think he would get much game time. Hopefully he gets a chance. Would you say his lack of game time was purely injury or is he ready for more game time ahead of Pryce or Eastmond?

Wheeler has an excellent rugby brain. He is also strong and tackles well. He actually plays centre well but his position traditionally has been stand off.

It seems like you have a lot of players coming through at standoff. That should be good for the future of Sts. Do you think it may backfire if your two halves leave at the end of the season? As in will the good work be almost wasted as you have to rely on them next year?

Wheeler and Lomax in particular but it is also worth noting that they have both played the majority of their games under Potter. It will be interesting for me as a Saints fan to see if Simmons' training regime improves our fitness. Wheeler had one bone injury (deep slice to the shin I think it was) but other than that his injuries were all muscular. The injuries to Lomax were all muscular. That maybe weak muscles or it may be poor training/conditioning. Time will tell. As for Kyle, he clearly had problem ankles as he bust one and then the other and neither had the time they needed to heal, for whatever reason. He has had operations on both ankles now and so it may be that he is through the worst of it in terms of persistent injury.

I think conditioning played a major part last season. That is probably why you were so unlucky with injuries. there were so many muscular injuris of injuries that could have easily been avoided. There was foster with a similiar muscular injury. Broken necks and ankles were most liekly unfortunate. However, i get the feeling Eastmond jsut isn't built for Rugby league. He is too square shaped for his ankles, which seem weaker than usual, it is like the perfect storm. Additionally, there are reports of some part of the injury being in his head. I am optimistic of him staying in league. But maybe he feel Union would accommodate him more. I would certianly love to see him in prim and blue.

No idea what we will be like against Wigan or anyone else this season as with three new players and a bunch of outgoing players plus a new coach, a new home ground and a new training facility it's like we are a new team. Any or all of those changes could undermine us or refresh us. Haven't a clue. But I would sure love a season without a ridiculous injury count. Last season went way beyond.

I think you will start the season with a win. But it is hard to tell, as you mention. However, what are your expectations for next year. You didn't seem like a ruthless team last year. It was Warrington and Wigan that seemed like the dominant ones. Then you snook in at the end of the year to take second and find a spot at the GF. Are you hoping for silverware or just more consistency. Not losing a load of players to injury or losing to Catalan at home?

Re: Pryce going nowhere (as if we hadn't guessed!) : Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:26 pm  

I think you will start the season with a win. But it is hard to tell, as you mention. However, what are your expectations for next year. You didn't seem like a ruthless team last year. It was Warrington and Wigan that seemed like the dominant ones. Then you snook in at the end of the year to take second and find a spot at the GF. Are you hoping for silverware or just more consistency. Not losing a load of players to injury or losing to Catalan at home?
you say eastmond isnt built for league,yet would love to see him in prim and blue?

despite losing to catalan at home,we beat them away,wire didnt,we beat huddersfield in the play offs at home,wire didnt,and we beat wire 3 times.all despite the injuries.yours was a well constructed post until the paragraph at the end

Re: Pryce going nowhere (as if we hadn't guessed!) : Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:55 pm  

snowdog wrote:

you say eastmond isnt built for league,yet would love to see him in prim and blue?

yeah, i bet there are a hundred people on this site that feel the same way about him at their team. He without doubt has not reached his potential. But, that is the key word potential. I was saying i would risk it in case he was the best thay britain has produced. However, i fear that he may be destined for union.

despite losing to catalan at home,we beat them away,wire didnt,we beat huddersfield in the play offs at home,wire didnt,and we beat wire 3 times.all despite the injuries.yours was a well constructed post until the paragraph at the end

Losing at home isn't a good thing you know, especially to one of the worst teams in the league last year. Wire can always say the heat got to them. Perpi in the summer is bloody hot you know. Any way, yes they are things to improve on this season. A good playoff run is paramount. If you don't think Saints need to improve on last year. You are mistaken. Additionally, with an untried team, coach and stadium, it is all in the air. What do you expect out of next year?

Re: Pryce going nowhere (as if we hadn't guessed!) : Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:06 pm  

every team needs to improve on last year,wigan didnt even win the cup!
if we achieved what we did last year with injuries who knows what we can achieve this year if we stay injury free.the new coach has to be an improvement,our only problem will be playing 'away'allthough by the business end of the season this might not be such a problem.
your team,mine and every other can start off the season with big intentions,your sig seems to think you would like to go through unbeaten,but at the end of the day the injury list determines results,or the back up from the reserves does.
btw,why did you say on the wire forum that you wouldnt want eastmond because he is too much like myler,yet on here you say you would have him?