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Re: Paul Johnson : Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:34 pm  
According to the Wakefield site Mike Rush recommended him to them. It is good to see we are looking after all our juniors and not just the ones that make it with us.
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Re: Paul Johnson : Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:51 pm  
Rogues Gallery wrote:
It's a major problem in that one players get to 20 -21 - 22 years old and have not established themselves in the first team, what does a club do with them.
The three over 20's in the U20 team rule makes it difficult, and so the majority move on. The other option is to loan players out on dual contract, but even in that case many of the players tend to move on, Ainscough, Walker, Smith, Emmitt, Dean, Tyrer etc.

It must be a very difficult for a club in deciding who to keep.


To be honest Rogues if a young player has not made it by the time they are 21/22 then they are not going to make it. A lot is made out about your team letting go a lot of young players but in reality very few have prooved Wigan wrong. The same can be said about Saints, even the natural ability of Lee Briers has not been enough to prove that Saints reservations about his professionalism were wrong.

I personally think it a good thing that the 20/25 rule and the salary cap exist. It forces clubs to find out if their young players are good enough and if not they are allowed to go to a club who will.

The bottom line is that Paul is a good player who should be playing in Superleague but is probably not good enough to play at Saints given the quality of the other players coming through. In the past a lot of good Saints juniors that have only just fallen off the radar after just missing out at Saints.

I guess that a lot of clubs know who they are going to keep. Foster vs Armstrong and Dean Vs Wheeler are great examples of this. For a long time it looked like Armstrong and Dean were going to make it at Saints but Wheeler and Foster had always showed more promise in the juniors and the club gave them more time to prove themselves so eventually they got the first team contracts.
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Re: Paul Johnson : Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:08 pm  
Noel Cleal wrote:
To be honest Rogues if a young player has not made it by the time they are 21/22 then they are not going to make it. A lot is made out about your team letting go a lot of young players but in reality very few have prooved Wigan wrong. The same can be said about Saints, even the natural ability of Lee Briers has not been enough to prove that Saints reservations about his professionalism were wrong.

I personally think it a good thing that the 20/25 rule and the salary cap exist. It forces clubs to find out if their young players are good enough and if not they are allowed to go to a club who will.

The bottom line is that Paul is a good player who should be playing in Superleague but is probably not good enough to play at Saints given the quality of the other players coming through. In the past a lot of good Saints juniors that have only just fallen off the radar after just missing out at Saints.

I guess that a lot of clubs know who they are going to keep. Foster vs Armstrong and Dean Vs Wheeler are great examples of this. For a long time it looked like Armstrong and Dean were going to make it at Saints but Wheeler and Foster had always showed more promise in the juniors and the club gave them more time to prove themselves so eventually they got the first team contracts.


Do you not think robinson and brown as proving themselves as good enough for wigoon then?
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Re: Paul Johnson : Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:21 pm  
saint at wire wrote:
Do you not think robinson and brown as proving themselves as good enough for wigoon then?

I doubt Wigan would swap tompkins and lulu and/or finch for them
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Re: Paul Johnson : Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:58 am  
saint at wire wrote:
Do you not think robinson and brown as proving themselves as good enough for wigoon then?


OK I have two issues with that comment.

1. Two players would count as "very few"
2. Luke Robinson would not get picked in Wigans team and Brown would not be guarenteed a plave either.
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Re: Paul Johnson : Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:08 am  
Noel Cleal wrote:
OK I have two issues with that comment.

1. Two players would count as "very few"
2. Luke Robinson would not get picked in Wigans team and Brown would not be guarenteed a plave either.



I think I've been very consistent on this one.

On the players that left, Aspinwall, Hodgson, Brown, Wilde, Brown, Bibey etc Kevin Brown is the only player I wish we had kept.

I am and always was a Kev Brown fan and was told he was very close to resigning for Wigan for next season.

I hope he has a great tour down under, and proves what a good player he really is.
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Re: Paul Johnson : Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:52 am  
Rogues Gallery wrote:
I think I've been very consistent on this one.

On the players that left, Aspinwall, Hodgson, Brown, Wilde, Brown, Bibey etc Kevin Brown is the only player I wish we had kept.

I am and always was a Kev Brown fan and was told he was very close to resigning for Wigan for next season.

I hope he has a great tour down under, and proves what a good player he really is.


I'd agree with that. I like Brown as a player and it's a bit of shame he hasn't quite reached the levels that the little dribble through try in the corner hinted at.
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Re: Paul Johnson : Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:35 pm  
The unfortunate thing for many 20,21 year olds is that they are often competing with 25 to 30 year old Ausies or NZs for a place in the team and thats not a level playing field.

A club will almost always opt for safety when picking its top 20 players, ie. those who will make up the team for the majority of the season. Sadly that means many young kids with potential never get to finish their rugby education by playing regular 1st team football.
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Re: Paul Johnson : Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:11 pm  
The Clan wrote:
The unfortunate thing for many 20,21 year olds is that they are often competing with 25 to 30 year old Ausies or NZs for a place in the team and thats not a level playing field.

A club will almost always opt for safety when picking its top 20 players, ie. those who will make up the team for the majority of the season. Sadly that means many young kids with potential never get to finish their rugby education by playing regular 1st team football.


Agreed,
This is my solution, apologies to all of you who have heard it before.

Six substitutes and substitutions, but NO interchange (bringing fitness and stamina back into the equation).
Two of those substitutes have to be 21 or under at the start of the season (or an agreed date) and English qualified.

Thoughts please?
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Re: Paul Johnson : Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:09 pm  
Rogues Gallery wrote:
Agreed,
This is my solution, apologies to all of you who have heard it before.

Six substitutes and substitutions, but NO interchange (bringing fitness and stamina back into the equation).
Two of those substitutes have to be 21 or under at the start of the season (or an agreed date) and English qualified.

Thoughts please?

I like it, but I like interchanges too, so I'd have 5 on the bench, but like you suggest, 2 under 21's on it
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