Holbrook must take the blame : Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:33 am  

Why on earth would he pick virtually new spine in the biggest game of the year and must win game ?

Ben barba hasn't played rugby league for nearly 12 month and he looked that way . He looked way off the pace, he was out of position on kicks and coming across in defence. He was really blowing after 20 mins but it's to be expected as not match fit and still rusty but he should have been on bench or not in 17.

Picking barba meant lomax goes to 6 to play in halves for first time in many years and first game in halves with the woeful matty Smith. We looked like a team playing first few games of new season when we trying to get used to new combos but to do this in a must win game is crazy.

He should have gone with barba on bench with fages and Smith in halves and used barba as and when needed.

You can't go with new combos in the play offs when we have fully fit squad.

We looked blunt in attack most if the year but we had no direction at all last night and nobody looked comfortable.

Re: Holbrook must take the blame : Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:26 am  

Wigan fan coming in peace! Totally agree with this, really strange call and a case of recruiting a player who in reality you don't need and then having to fit him in somewhere simply because he is available.

Don't get me wrong I'm sure Barba will be a quality addition but he looked way off the pace last night. Long term you are going to have to sacrifice 1 of Fages, Smith and Lomax and given the contract you position with Smith I would assume it would be one of the other 2.

Never rated Payroux (or however you spell it) was made up when you signed him, however thought he was very good last night.

Strange call by your coach though in what in reality was a must win game for both sides.

Re: Holbrook must take the blame : Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:59 am  

jonh wrote:

Wigan fan coming in peace! Totally agree with this, really strange call and a case of recruiting a player who in reality you don't need and then having to fit him in somewhere simply because he is available.

Don't get me wrong I'm sure Barba will be a quality addition but he looked way off the pace last night. Long term you are going to have to sacrifice 1 of Fages, Smith and Lomax and given the contract you position with Smith I would assume it would be one of the other 2.

Never rated Payroux (or however you spell it) was made up when you signed him, however thought he was very good last night.

Strange call by your coach though in what in reality was a must win game for both sides.

It's not the recurring of barba as he's a top quality player and we had to sign him when we did to get his ban up for next year but it's the fact we reshuffled our whole spine up for such a big big game and had new combinations at important time if the year.

Barba will be good signing but I think Holbrook put barba in just because he's barba and it upset the team. Barba does offer the x factor we didn't have but for me, his time is next year and should be on bench until then or until he comes on and deserves his spot.

Fages didn't make the 17 and id say he's been in a top 3 players this year.

Re: Holbrook must take the blame : Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:44 pm  

St pete wrote:

It's not the recurring of barba as he's a top quality player and we had to sign him when we did to get his ban up for next year but it's the fact we reshuffled our whole spine up for such a big big game and had new combinations at important time if the year.

Barba will be good signing but I think Holbrook put barba in just because he's barba and it upset the team. Barba does offer the x factor we didn't have but for me, his time is next year and should be on bench until then or until he comes on and deserves his spot.

Fages didn't make the 17 and id say he's been in a top 3 players this year.

Yes, Barba should have been on the bench to try and exploit a possible tired opposition defence after 20 mins. Lomax and Smith is possibly the worse combination that you can think of in the halves, to completely remove Fages from the 17 was probably the most dumbest decision this season under Cunningham or Holbrook.

Like you say you don't experiment with a new combination for such an important pivotal game, Wane must have been a happy chappy and must have checked his calendar to see if Xmas had come a few months early. Also Amor, Wilkin and LMS must be getting embarrassed on a weekly basis when they see the performance stats of Walmsley, Roby and Taia. Can we not put 5kg on Makinson and throw him in at Loose Forward, make him captain and drop Wilkin.

Re: Holbrook must take the blame : Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:13 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

Yes, Barba should have been on the bench to try and exploit a possible tired opposition defence after 20 mins. Lomax and Smith is possibly the worse combination that you can think of in the halves, to completely remove Fages from the 17 was probably the most dumbest decision this season under Cunningham or Holbrook.

Like you say you don't experiment with a new combinationo for such an important pivotal game, Wane must have been a happy chappy and must have checked his calendar to see if Xmas had come a few months early. Also Amor, Wilkin and LMS must be getting embarrassed on a weekly basis when they see the performance stats of Walmsley, Roby and Taia. Can we not put 5kg on Makinson and throw him in at Loose Forward, make him captain and drop Wilkin.

Regarding Tommy, I think he's been top class this year. He s played fullback and was outstanding, he's played centre and was very good and hes a very good winger.

He slimmed down this year after putting some bulk on (kc using him as forward in our own 20m) and he's back to his best. I don't think putting weight on him and moving him is good idea as he's good how he is.

Tommy is my saints player of the year. His attack has come back this year with him trimming down and getting pace back.

Re: Holbrook must take the blame : Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:28 pm  

Think peopel are being slightyly harsh on 2 people last night.

1. Holbrook
2. Lomax

Going into the biggest game of the season i can see why he went with Smith, Smiths won big matches in the past and the coach backed him to repay the good salary he is on. Smith failed the coach, its as simple as that.

On Lomax i thought he was everywhere last night, switching from side to side and nearlly found a few gaps, his defence wasent the best but that will come. Jonny is a competitor i have no problem with his game.

For me id like to see

1. Barba
6. Lomax
7. Fages

Let Fages be responsible for being our general and let Barba and Lomax loose.

Re: Holbrook must take the blame : Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:17 pm  

LFC Saint wrote:

Think peopel are being slightyly harsh on 2 people last night.

1. Holbrook
2. Lomax

Going into the biggest game of the season i can see why he went with Smith, Smiths won big matches in the past and the coach backed him to repay the good salary he is on. Smith failed the coach, its as simple as that.

On Lomax i thought he was everywhere last night, switching from side to side and nearlly found a few gaps, his defence wasent the best but that will come. Jonny is a competitor i have no problem with his game.

For me id like to see

1. Barba
6. Lomax
7. Fages

Let Fages be responsible for being our general and let Barba and Lomax loose.

I've not heard anyone be to harsh lomax tbh but I place most of the blame on Holbrook.

Yes barba is the is top quality and has that x factor we've lacked for many years but the guy hasn't played rugby league in nearly a year and looked rusty and obviously not match fit. He shouldn't just walk into the 13 for last 4 games of the year.

The biggest problem for me tho was he unsettled the team. Barba doesn't know how anyone plays only from training. Lomax and Smith is brand new partnership in the halves and need time to gel and the business end if the season isn't the time to be looking at new combos. That gets done in pre season practice games and early season games.

Most teams with new spine at the start of the season need pre season friendlies and month of the season to gel and learn how each other play and coaches regularly comment on needing new combos to gel.

To Me , it's just utter madness to try totally new spine in must win game and the business end if the year.

Re: Holbrook must take the blame : Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:20 am  

Holbrook probably thinks your best chance of success this year is to get Barba to match fitness as quickly as possible. That means playing him the full 80 minutes while his match fitness is clearly lacking. If you manage to sneak 4th place it could turn out to be a good move.

Re: Holbrook must take the blame : Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:02 pm  

He may be of the viewpoint that Saints are not in the position this year to win it.
He is therefore using this season as a developmental season to see what works and what doesnt.
He has seen how Fage and Richardson work together so now he is testing how Lomax and Smith work.
Based on that he will probably formulate the optimum solution for next season.

In the off season we will see lots of work done to change the players physiques to suit the playstyle Holbrook wants. The current players are all built for bash and barge rugby as per Cunninghams desire. I also anticipate lots of work will need to be done on learning the basics of how to pass. The players have been woefully deskilled in this area, and while they have made significant improvements under Holbrook there is still a lot of improvement that can be gained.

Re: Holbrook must take the blame : Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:00 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

He may be of the viewpoint that Saints are not in the position this year to win it.
He is therefore using this season as a developmental season to see what works and what doesnt.
He has seen how Fage and Richardson work together so now he is testing how Lomax and Smith work.
Based on that he will probably formulate the optimum solution for next season.

In the off season we will see lots of work done to change the players physiques to suit the playstyle Holbrook wants. The current players are all built for bash and barge rugby as per Cunninghams desire. I also anticipate lots of work will need to be done on learning the basics of how to pass. The players have been woefully deskilled in this area, and while they have made significant improvements under Holbrook there is still a lot of improvement that can be gained.

Not a chance he doesn't think we can win it this year. If we get 4th we need to win two in row and we are champions. We've beat cas, Wigan, Leeds this year so no reason why we can't get there or win it if we make the 4.

That's what makes it even more crazy to change the spine now