2015 : Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:30 pm  

I have just been on redvee and reading a thread about next season's best 1-17.

I've seen people say that they are really excited about the squad next season and that they are 'drooling' over some of the 1-17s that have been posted.

I'm not one to be too negative (we did dominate SL last season...) but I think there are still some outstanding issues that need to be addressed by KC. The points below aren't in any particular order, but I'm going from 1-17 in my thinking:

1) Wellens' role - he was superb in the run in last season. A real pro and the first time I've really thought of him standing up as our captain. But what will his role be? I don't want KC to put him anywhere again...but is he now too vital to leave out if available?

2) Percival/Turner/Jones - where will each end up? Percival is a certain starter IMO but which side? Do we pair him up with swift or Makinson? Splitting Percy and swift was a good plan but where does that leave turner? And what about jones: where does he fit in with all this?

3) Walsh - will he keep fit? When will he be fit to play and who will fill in until he does come back? Thankfully we have options and I suppose GF winning Flash can always be used!! Also question marks over Lomax's fitness too.

3) starting props - who do we go with? Amor certainly, but Walmsley and Masoe shouldn't start imo. Can Richards be relied upon as a full time starting prop? He was superb in the GF, but he is still young.

4) back row - this is an area that does worry me. We look weak I think. I know Vea is coming in but tbh I don't know much about him. Losing Soliola and Manu is massive. I was such a Manu fan and we will miss him. I like Thompson at 13. Will LMS carry his form into next season too? He does tend to start slow.

5) youngsters - Brown did well bringing them through and taking them out at the right times. How much will Savelio play? Will Greenwood come back in? I wonder who will break through in 2015 like Percival and Thompson.

I am really looking forward to next season but I think there is some work before I can think of this team being really strong. Definitely have the players but it's fitting them in and creating the right combinations that could take a bit of time.

Possibly why we really needed brown to stay another season to finish off the squad. It's certainly heading in the right direction but to truly kick start our dominance again there is still some work left

Re: 2015 : Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:33 pm  

Just for arguments sake, here is my 1-17:

1. Lomax
2. Makinson
3. Percival
4. Turner
5. Swift
6. Burns
7. Walsh
8. Richards
9. Roby
10. Amor
11. Vea
12. Wilkin
13. Thompson

14. Hohaia
15. Masoe
16. Walmsley
17. LMS

Re: 2015 : Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:59 pm  

Albion wrote:

I have just been on redvee and reading a thread about next season's best 1-17.

I've seen people say that they are really excited about the squad next season and that they are 'drooling' over some of the 1-17s that have been posted.

I'm not one to be too negative (we did dominate SL last season...) but I think there are still some outstanding issues that need to be addressed by KC. The points below aren't in any particular order, but I'm going from 1-17 in my thinking:

1) Wellens' role - he was superb in the run in last season. A real pro and the first time I've really thought of him standing up as our captain. But what will his role be? I don't want KC to put him anywhere again...but is he now too vital to leave out if available?

2) Percival/Turner/Jones - where will each end up? Percival is a certain starter IMO but which side? Do we pair him up with swift or Makinson? Splitting Percy and swift was a good plan but where does that leave turner? And what about jones: where does he fit in with all this?

3) Walsh - will he keep fit? When will he be fit to play and who will fill in until he does come back? Thankfully we have options and I suppose GF winning Flash can always be used!! Also question marks over Lomax's fitness too.

3) starting props - who do we go with? Amor certainly, but Walmsley and Masoe shouldn't start imo. Can Richards be relied upon as a full time starting prop? He was superb in the GF, but he is still young.

4) back row - this is an area that does worry me. We look weak I think. I know Vea is coming in but tbh I don't know much about him. Losing Soliola and Manu is massive. I was such a Manu fan and we will miss him. I like Thompson at 13. Will LMS carry his form into next season too? He does tend to start slow.

5) youngsters - Brown did well bringing them through and taking them out at the right times. How much will Savelio play? Will Greenwood come back in? I wonder who will break through in 2015 like Percival and Thompson.

I am really looking forward to next season but I think there is some work before I can think of this team being really strong. Definitely have the players but it's fitting them in and creating the right combinations that could take a bit of time.

Possibly why we really needed brown to stay another season to finish off the squad. It's certainly heading in the right direction but to truly kick start our dominance again there is still some work left

1) pushing Lomax all the way for his place. Last year nobody thought Wellens was a threat for lomax's shirt, but another year of injuries have left some lingering question marks over our incumbent no.1... I think the idea is to slowly shift Wellens focus to the coaching side as the season wears on as it is (though I said that this season)

2) percival has to start on the right for me and I think Jones is very underrated as a centre, and works very well on the left, complimenting Swift ... But Turner won't miss out and is still ahead of both in the pecking order. If and when Lomax plays though I wouldn't mind seeing Turner play a support role, poking through holes in the middle, running on forwards shoulders whilst offering another pair of hands in a sticky situation (aka play the traditional fulback role from another position) - I'd guess that solution is to carry him on at 13, but then that raises questions about Wilkin etc etc.

3) I don't have question marks over Walsh's fitness, sometimes tragedies happen. Questions still remain if he'll be fit for the season openers, but assuming he's not (and even if he is, it'll probably be worthwhile giving him a full off season belatedly) I imagine the easiest solution is Wilkin stepping into the role, with Hewitt hopefully playing a few "lesser" games next to Burns, who should be a good mentor and protector on the pitch.

4) I was a big doubter at the start of the season about using Walmsley or Masoe as a starter, but as with a lot of Browns peculiar tactics, I was made to eat humble pie. Hopefully we'll get more minutes from both next year with full off seasons for both, but I think Masoe edges it for me over Walmsley because he can have an aggressive streak when he wants (see the grand final). I wouldn't want to see Richards as a 4th choice prop in full rotation as I think he needs a few more years, so I'm still hoping there's another prop joining us. He will make a great 5th choice though for rotating and keeping people fresh.

5) a lot has been made about losing Soliola/ Manu - but one of the losses is negated by a bench spot being recovered by an interchange hooker being reintroduced. It means we'll play in a slightly different way next year, but limits the impact of the 2 losses. Vea will be a very good signing imo but only time will tell. LMS starts slow, but so did Manu (I'd of dropped him after cas away if he hadn't of been injured, he was very poor), so whilst it's frustrating, I don't think it changes us much, and should make the transition to back row permanently. I like Thompson playing the role he did in the second row, and so that would be my starting 3 (LMS and Thompson starting Vea off the bench). That leaves Flanaghan Greenwood and Savelio in rotation. (With Wilkin/Turner in the 13 role)

6) I'm hoping Hewitt will burst into life at the start of next year, and I think its a make or break year for Walker, so I'm hopeful he can step up. Don't know beyond there? Maybe the elusive Charnock may even be seen!

if I had to select a squad of 25 only at the moment it would be:
1. Lomax 2. Makinson 3. Percival 4. Jones 5. Swift 6. Burns 7. Walsh 8. Amor 9. Roby 10. Masoe 11. LMS 12. Thompson 13. Turner 14. Hohaia 15. Vea 16. Walmsley 17. Richards 18. Wellens 19. Dawson 20. Gardner 21. Hewitt 22. Walker 23. Flanaghan 24. Wilkin 25. Hand

Hopefully another prop will come in though, and it will leave us with a decent amount of depth outside the 25 as well with the likes of Greenwood and Savelio unlucky to miss out...

Re: 2015 : Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:24 am  

Lomax
Makinson
Turner
Percival
Swift
Burns
Walsh
Amor
Roby
Walmsley
Jones
Thompson
Wilkin

Hohaia
Masoe
LMS
Vea

Wellens, Richards, Dawson, Savelio, Flanagan, Greenwood.
Still hopefully another prop to come in there somewhere too.

Re: 2015 : Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:06 am  

Don't really see any problems in losing Soliola. I think his time to move on had come. With the acquisition of Amor and Masoe Soliola's impact was less noticeable.

Re: 2015 : Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:59 am  

We look good for 2015. The true sign of this is when we talk about another signing no one is quite sure what position we need to strengthen.
We have specialists in the key areas and a number of multi-taskers to cover the rest if the squad.

I think it is just down to the coach and what he can bring to the table.

Re: 2015 : Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:25 pm  

Albion wrote:

snip

If it were me, then -

1)Wellens's biggest contribution to Saints is as "The Big Stick" that KC should use to whack the players with when they don't perform. For me, he needs to transfer this quality from that of an onfield player, to an club captain who only plays when needed, to a member of the coaching staff. This season should be playing in emergencies imo.

2)Turner's the problem here. Percival is a gem, so he gets one spot. When Turner fires, he's wonderful, but he has too many off days which would make me favour Jones over the course of a season. If Turner fires correctly, then he's a real asset. Hopefully, with the improved ball he'll get from our proper halves, he'll be forced to shape up or ship out. I expect a full season from Percy, the time for wrapping him in cotton wool is now past.

3)I would say that Hohaia - Burns will be the half until he arrives back, which should be good enough. Lomax does worry me fitness wise, I'd like to see swift used as cover for #1 and Gardner or Dawson to fill in on the wing, but I suspect one of Lance or Wello would get the nod.

3)One of Masoe and Walmsley to start along side Amor, with the other on the bench, but we need another grafting prop to bring on for Amor. I'm hopeful for Richards, but at his age we should not be relying on him. New signing please (Bryce Gibbs has been suggested).

4)A massive bag of maybes. If LMS plays there and performs and Thompson continues to kick on, then we're all of a sudden looking strong, with Vea adding power and Wilkin, Jones and Flash adding graft, with Greenwood as further backup. If things don't go our way and/or Louis goes back to propping, then we're short. Got to have faith on this one, though, but it also relies on us bolstering the front row to free LMS.

5) Brown used them with abundance early on and then reigned It in at the business end, very shrewd. Hopefully KC will have learnt the value of this. All eyes on Savelio, though. Will we see Charnock at all?

Re: 2015 : Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:40 pm  

I don't care what anyone says, we are desperate for a prop. We can't rely on 19yr old kids to perform like an experienced prop week in and week out.

Re: 2015 : Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:43 pm  

St pete wrote:

I don't care what anyone says, we are desperate for a prop. We can't rely on 19yr old kids to perform like an experienced prop week in and week out.

Agreed.

It allows us to drop LMS into the back row. I still have questions over his edge defence and lateral movement but I think he could be very good going forward and will no doubt improve in his defence over the pre season.

A big grafter is a must for me if we have the space available.

Re: 2015 : Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:18 pm  

Albion wrote:

1) Wellens' role - he was superb in the run in last season. A real pro and the first time I've really thought of him standing up as our captain. But what will his role be? I don't want KC to put him anywhere again...but is he now too vital to leave out if available?

2) Percival/Turner/Jones - where will each end up? Percival is a certain starter IMO but which side? Do we pair him up with swift or Makinson? Splitting Percy and swift was a good plan but where does that leave turner? And what about jones: where does he fit in with all this?

3) Walsh - will he keep fit? When will he be fit to play and who will fill in until he does come back? Thankfully we have options and I suppose GF winning Flash can always be used!! Also question marks over Lomax's fitness too.

3) starting props - who do we go with? Amor certainly, but Walmsley and Masoe shouldn't start imo. Can Richards be relied upon as a full time starting prop? He was superb in the GF, but he is still young.

4) back row - this is an area that does worry me. We look weak I think. I know Vea is coming in but tbh I don't know much about him. Losing Soliola and Manu is massive. I was such a Manu fan and we will miss him. I like Thompson at 13. Will LMS carry his form into next season too? He does tend to start slow.

5) youngsters - Brown did well bringing them through and taking them out at the right times. How much will Savelio play? Will Greenwood come back in? I wonder who will break through in 2015 like Percival and Thompson.

I am really looking forward to next season but I think there is some work before I can think of this team being really strong. Definitely have the players but it's fitting them in and creating the right combinations that could take a bit of time.

Possibly why we really needed brown to stay another season to finish off the squad. It's certainly heading in the right direction but to truly kick start our dominance again there is still some work left

1 - Nonsense about Wello. He wasn't superb in the Play offs or the Final. He was solid at best and that's being very generous about his performance in the final. He's clearly good enough to play against no mark teams at fullback only, but cannot play elsewhere next season. The sentimentality at Saints will mean that if he signs up, he'll play every game.

2 - They should all play, Jones covering centre and backrow will mean he'll play almost every game.

3 - Walsh had a very serious injury. I have no concerns about him being fit, it's his confidence we have to worry about. Some don't ever recover. Lomax is a bigger worry, he doesn't look fit when he is and has been missing big periods too often now. I'm not convinced he'll ever progress either, he's no better now than he was a year ago.

3b - Amor and Walmsley IMO. I agree with St Pete that we are a forward light in general. Laffranchi wasn't great but with him, Sia and Manu going and only Vea coming in, it's clear we're light.

4 - Backrow depends on how good Vea actually is. I've not seen enough to decide either way. I would have much preferred another year for Manu. The reason we won SL this season is the size and depth of our pack. It's the reason we came top despite some huge gaps in other areas and it's the reason we won the GF so comfortably as well. Losing Sia and Manu and not replacing them like for like is going to be hard to overcome, no matter how good our new 6 and 7 combo is.

5 - Savelio and Greenwood should if they are staying. I find the treatment of the latter slightly bizarre. He started shaky, then improved beyond recognition, to the point where I'd have started him every week. Then he disappeared with no mention of injury and never returned. Contractual issues, salary cap? Savelio looks a talent, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's allowed to go to the NRL. I don't watch the academy so don't know if any more are capable of stepping up. It's probably the wrong time for bringing kids through, Union are so keen on League at the moment and the NRL is back to trusting English players after the success of recent exports. Any that come through that are international quality will be gone within a year or two unless they are homebirds.