We need a Captain : Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:13 pm  

If there was ever proof of that, it's today. Wigan, as Wigan do, just turned up with 110% aggression and commitment and played professionally. They would die for the shirt and it's all about the collective. Nothing fancy, no real ability (As in the kind of ability that decides games ala Tomkins, Lyon etc) but just 100% effort. There were several times today where we had them. We'd battled back and had the territory, possession and momentum. Yet one man, as mentioned by Brown, stood out like a beacon in the dark. O'Loughlin was incredible for them today, he's peerless as a player in Super League (And should be in the NRL by now) and defensively he was there every single time we were about to strike back to stop us. He also more than did his job with the ball. He was the difference today and him alone. When it got tough for them, who was there geeing them up to go through that mental and physical wall again?

For us in the same situation? There is no one. When Wigan went three scores up and had won the game Wello was having a tantrum on the half way line and walked back with his head between his nipples with the body language a 3 year old uses when he's into his second hour of shopping round Tesco with his Mum.

This team has all the talent to win not only SL but the double. What is doesn't have is the mental strength required to win a final (Unless we were to luck out and get to a cup final against a Catalans or Hull). We aren't as committed as Wigan, we didn't put the effort in that they did or play at the intensity they did. In all seriousness they could have all 13 starting players missing and still beat us as the replacements would all have the same mentality.

Despite being much better this season we'll win nothing. When it's easy we can be superb. When it matters we're a gelatinous mess.

Re: We need a Captain : Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:18 pm  

We are missing someone in the forwards to lead by example like a Scully, Graham Cunningham or Joynt. Someone that can take game by the scruff of the neck. Don't see anyone at saints like that these days.

Also, a lot of wigans mental strength seems to emanate from Wane but not much seems to come from Brown in that respect.

Re: We need a Captain : Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:23 pm  

Harry Pinner wrote:

We are missing someone in the forwards to lead by example like a Scully, Graham Cunningham or Joynt. Someone that can take game by the scruff of the neck. Don't see anyone at saints like that these days.

Also, a lot of wigans mental strength seems to emanate from Wane but not much seems to come from Brown in that respect.

Different coaches, different teams, different players.

Wane will play to his strengths which is obviously aggression and maybe Brown feels we can't match that fire so tried to defuse it.

Re: We need a Captain : Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:25 pm  

St pete wrote:

Different coaches, different teams, different players.

Wane will play to his strengths which is obviously aggression and maybe Brown feels we can't match that fire so tried to defuse it.

We need to be able to fight fire with fire. Defusing it by what? Gifting them an early headstart and letting them get 2 scores ahead on a regular basis?

Re: We need a Captain : Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:27 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

We need to be able to fight fire with fire. Defusing it by what? Gifting them an early headstart and letting them get 2 scores ahead on a regular basis?

By signing some forwards on because that pack won't live with Wigan in a battle. We got to many impact props and not enough tough hard grafters like Amor.

The second rows are to small and not physically up to it either.

Re: We need a Captain : Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:37 pm  

St pete wrote:

By signing some forwards on because that pack won't live with Wigan in a battle. We got to many impact props and not enough tough hard grafters like Amor.

The second rows are to small and not physically up to it either.

Amor and Walmsley are fine. Beyond that we've got nothing unless Mose finds something.

The second rowers could be okay in Soliola, Manu and LMS. We shouldn't have Wello in there, but I won't start that debate again as we've been there.

I think it's more than personnel though. The attitude is what matters and is where we're lacking. You put O'Loughlin in that Saints team today and it dismantles Wigan. Am I wrong?

Re: We need a Captain : Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:43 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

Amor and Walmsley are fine. Beyond that we've got nothing unless Mose finds something.

The second rowers could be okay in Soliola, Manu and LMS. We shouldn't have Wello in there, but I won't start that debate again as we've been there.

I think it's more than personnel though. The attitude is what matters and is where we're lacking. You put O'Loughlin in that Saints team today and it dismantles Wigan. Am I wrong?

The problem with those 4 props, three of them are 15 min impact props. Look at the problems we've had with Amor being out.

Wilkin and flash are to lightweight against big packs.

Also, if I'm being honest, the pies have battered sia black and blue in recent seasons.

Re: We need a Captain : Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:46 pm  

St pete wrote:

The problem with those 4 props, three of them are 15 min impact props. Look at the problems we've had with Amor being out.

Wilkin and flash are to lightweight against big packs.

Also, if I'm being honest, the pies have battered sia black and blue in recent seasons.

But they're doing it with Jordan James playing. I rate Taylor, but Dudson, Flower, Pettybourne and James? It doesn't seem to matter who Wigan field, the outcome seems to be the same.

Re: We need a Captain : Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:53 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

But they're doing it with Jordan James playing. I rate Taylor, but Dudson, Flower, Pettybourne and James? It doesn't seem to matter who Wigan field, the outcome seems to be the same.

They are the wane type props tho. He just doesn't sign any prop on, they got to be physical.

Re: We need a Captain : Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:53 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

But they're doing it with Jordan James playing. I rate Taylor, but Dudson, Flower, Pettybourne and James? It doesn't seem to matter who Wigan field, the outcome seems to be the same.

James was a passenger today and Dudson is poor but you do a massive disservice to the other two (especially Flower). Pettybourne is adding great impact to the side (obviously couldn't today) and is getting better week on week. As for Ben Flower he's developed at a rate of knots and is one if the best props in superleague now.

He's our best prop without doubt IMO (Taylor is pushing him now though).