George Riley of the BBC blogs about Saints : Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:39 pm  

I think this makes for an interesting read, not least because two former greats of Saints express entirely different views as to the root of our present performance problem. It's difficult to argue with either of them really as both are involved in coaching and both were brilliant players (and I do wish both of them were still on our team!). Who do you agree with? And why? Sitting on the fence - something which is distinctly unusual for me - I tend to think our problems may stem from a bit of both reasons given but I'd be interested to learn what others think (so long as it's not just a straight whinge about the coach!).

I think this makes for an interesting read, not least because two former greats of Saints express entirely different views as to the root of our present performance problem. It's difficult to argue with either of them really as both are involved in coaching and both were brilliant players (and I do wish both of them were still on our team!). Who do you agree with? And why? Sitting on the fence - something which is distinctly unusual for me - I tend to think our problems may stem from a bit of both reasons given but I'd be interested to learn what others think (so long as it's not just a straight whinge about the coach!).

Re: George Riley of the BBC blogs about Saints : Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:46 pm  

IMO and from watching the team Longy is right.

What also adds more weight to his argument is that he has actually been involved in coaching against us this year.

Re: George Riley of the BBC blogs about Saints : Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:47 pm  

Longy has nailed it, Scully is towing the club line.

Re: George Riley of the BBC blogs about Saints : Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:52 pm  

They are both correct really - Long is correct in that the structure and coaching caused the problems, which has led to a complete lack of confidence amongst the younger players in particular, as Scully says.

Interesting that there was a "players revolt" in 2005, that led to a coaching style change - as the blog says, I doubt the current crop would have the confidence to go to Simmons with a new play book.

Re: George Riley of the BBC blogs about Saints : Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:27 pm  

If they keep making errors what can a coach do?

A bit limp wristed from Scully. What happened to perfect practice make perfect, Paul?

One sounds like a coach that has been watching Saints with a veiw to beating them with his new team. Another sounds more like a Saints spokesman.

The claim that Royce is a World Class man manager seems a little far fetched at the moment.
Things are rarely completely one sided, so both stories will be correct to a degree, but, for me, a much larger portion of the blame lies with the issues Longy's alluded to.

Re: George Riley of the BBC blogs about Saints : Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:18 pm  

Longys right.

Re: George Riley of the BBC blogs about Saints : Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:04 pm  

I think Longy is right, but this then leads to the situation that sculthorpe is talking about. So the initial problem was the 1 dimesional play, but you can win with one dimensional play. We have been close in alot of games, but this is then leading to a lack of confidence, meaning that players try things to push the win, which were not planned. Basically the plan is good enough to generate close games, but not enough to dominate games, this leads to players getting nevry and doing things not planned. At this point even the one dimensional play is lost and we struggle to provide any creative play.

Whether we are 1 dimensional due to coaching or player ability is still an open question.

Re: George Riley of the BBC blogs about Saints : Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:32 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

The claim that Royce is a World Class man manager seems a little far fetched at the moment.

Far-fetched to say world class but he could well be very good, however it's not his man management that has anyone worried. I think the only things in the article that I would agree wholeheartedly with is his mentioning of defence and the inexperience of our halves. The latter is not a major concern for me because I remember Leeds stumbling along with McGuire/Burrow (Lomax, Wheeler and Gaskell are all more skillful players at the same age) and they put trust in them. The result is a decade of stability at half back which has helped contribute to a dynasty. We have the same opportunity here. There isn't another club in the league which has three home-grown half backs of this quality in their first grade outfits right now so it's up to Royce to give them some new tricks. Perhaps, Ricky Stuart will still be around at the end of the year...

Re: George Riley of the BBC blogs about Saints : Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:53 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

Longy has nailed it, Scully is towing the club line.

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Scully may be right about confidence but he can't slate anybody at the club.

Re: George Riley of the BBC blogs about Saints : Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:39 pm  

Aside from the Saints discussion I find it interesting that being effective but one-dimensional used to be enough to get you to the Grand Final now it's not enough to break into the top four. Now you need to be able to defend and have attacking options that extend further than ball control.