Re: Ben Flower reception : Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:03 pm  

Bruce_Forsyth wrote:

Do any of you Saints fans not get infuriated with this st pete bloke? Everytime I pay a visit to this board, his smug attitude really comes across. 'I know everyone at Saints plus their cousins,their Aunts,Dogs,cats etc etc so my opinion is of more value than yours'.

Mose may not have been a huge hit for you. But for anyone to say he's been a 'massive let down' is surely from someone beyond all help.

Nice to see you, to see you nice. Yes pete irritates me and I don't think he knows anyone at saints and especially don't think he kniws their cats and dogs. I just think he has wild guesses and gets them correct

Re: Ben Flower reception : Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:30 pm  

All I know is that when just about every player in the Red V was losing his marbles against Cas, Mose was putting us within drop goal range with that monstrous 15-20m drive (which "better" players conspired to waste entirely), or explaining to Ryan Bailey the facts of life etc. etc.

Re: Ben Flower reception : Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:02 pm  

I forgot to say - I sure hope Tasi and Haggerty are going to compensate for the shortfall in intimidation because the first time a Saints player gets flattened without any sign of payback it won't take long for fans to voice their displeasure.

Re: Ben Flower reception : Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:58 pm  

St pete wrote:

I don't eat burgers. He's 23st and plays like 13st. He should be doing real damage the size and mobility he has but his impact is pretty much nothing.

Wigan fan in peace - Given Mose's apparent lack of impact I can't understand why Wigan put so much emphasis on him when he came on last week with 3/4 players flying out of the line trying (and failing!) to put a big hit on him, when up until then they had held a very disciplined line speed (I thought Wigan's front 3 did a good job on Walmsley up to that first round of subs).
It happened a couple of times and it look like the turning point in the match to me, if I recall correctly it was a failed big hit/committing too many players on Mose that led to Roby finding a gap then Burns pulling that 40-20 out the hat.
If, like some think, he is a useless lump it would have been a better tactic to just let him trundle in as usual and save the effort for your other forwards
Got to give the big lad respect for that kick chase as well.

Long story short, think Mose offers you something different, even if its just focusing the oppo's attention away from your other forwards.

Re: Ben Flower reception : Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:19 pm  

spartakmixtapes wrote:

Wigan fan in peace - Given Mose's apparent lack of impact I can't understand why Wigan put so much emphasis on him when he came on last week with 3/4 players flying out of the line trying (and failing!) to put a big hit on him, when up until then they had held a very disciplined line speed (I thought Wigan's front 3 did a good job on Walmsley up to that first round of subs).
It happened a couple of times and it look like the turning point in the match to me, if I recall correctly it was a failed big hit/committing too many players on Mose that led to Roby finding a gap then Burns pulling that 40-20 out the hat.


Long story short, think Mose offers you something different, even if its just focusing the oppo's attention away from your other forwards.

This is his purpose in the team to commit 3 or 4 defenders to allow a wider ball on the next play, he,s not going to have much go forward with 4 players hanging on to him. You can,t commit only 1 or 2 defenders, he will flatten and trample over somebody if its one on one, with 2 defenders he usually gets his arm free for a pass. Quite often we use him as a decoy which reduces the no of carries for him in a game.
The problem is he does,t do enough minutes, most matches our strength is in the middle so we rotate our forwards quite a lot, some do hard yards and longer minutes, Walmsley and Mose do a lot of damage and have the highest tackle bust per carry ratio than any other forwards in Superleague. (1 tackle bust for every 3.8 carries)

Re: Ben Flower reception : Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:33 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

This is his purpose in the team to commit 3 or 4 defenders to allow a wider ball on the next play, he,s not going to have much go forward with 4 players hanging on to him. You can,t commit only 1 or 2 defenders, he will flatten and trample over somebody if its one on one, with 2 defenders he usually gets his arm free for a pass. Quite often we use him as a decoy which reduces the no of carries for him in a game.

My only issue with this from a Wigan standpoint is we generally commit 3 players to each tackle and use a quick and aggressive but controlled line speed headed up by Mcillorum. Up till Mose came on I thought they handled your pack pretty well, as evidenced by Walmsley blowing pretty hard walking to a scrum after 15 - 20 minutes. Judging by some of your own fans view of Mose I'm at a loss why Wigan targeted him.

Re: Ben Flower reception : Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:09 pm  

spartakmixtapes wrote:

Wigan fan in peace - Given Mose's apparent lack of impact I can't understand why Wigan put so much emphasis on him when he came on last week with 3/4 players flying out of the line trying (and failing!) to put a big hit on him, when up until then they had held a very disciplined line speed (I thought Wigan's front 3 did a good job on Walmsley up to that first round of subs).
It happened a couple of times and it look like the turning point in the match to me, if I recall correctly it was a failed big hit/committing too many players on Mose that led to Roby finding a gap then Burns pulling that 40-20 out the hat.
If, like some think, he is a useless lump it would have been a better tactic to just let him trundle in as usual and save the effort for your other forwards
Got to give the big lad respect for that kick chase as well.

Long story short, think Mose offers you something different, even if its just focusing the oppo's attention away from your other forwards.

Woah.....a rare beast indeed, a Wiganer with a clue !!!!! Let's take a moment to appreciate this, it happens all too rarely.

Yes, Masoe's impact is never going to be measurable on a stats sheet. Look at Swift's try against Wigan - Masoe drags four men under the sticks, as well as driving McIlorum into the ground, Saints sling it wide and Swift goes in untouched.

His real impact is the aggression. What he did against you guys was systematically target McIlorum. Hammered him first chance he got and let's be honest, hit him and Wigan turn into a group of girls. That's what Masoe does. Never going to look great on paper and in truth, not all that fabulous but when you consider the key area where Saints used to fall short against Wigan was in the aggression department, well, that ain't happening with Masoe on the field.

Of course, this won't stop the agenda driving fools to keep up their boring campaign. Every single post will continue to imply or explicitly state that Masoe's this and he's that. It's mindnumbing stuff.

Re: Ben Flower reception : Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:11 pm  

Just on Ben Flower. Not bothered, he wouldn't even make our 17. None of Wigan's props would.

Re: Ben Flower reception : Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:37 pm  

SLS wrote:

Woah.....a rare beast indeed, a Wiganer with a clue !!!!! Let's take a moment to appreciate this, it happens all too rarely.

Yes, Masoe's impact is never going to be measurable on a stats sheet. Look at Swift's try against Wigan - Masoe drags four men under the sticks, as well as driving McIlorum into the ground, Saints sling it wide and Swift goes in untouched.

His real impact is the aggression. What he did against you guys was systematically target McIlorum. Hammered him first chance he got and let's be honest, hit him and Wigan turn into a group of girls. That's what Masoe does. Never going to look great on paper and in truth, not all that fabulous but when you consider the key area where Saints used to fall short against Wigan was in the aggression department, well, that ain't happening with Masoe on the field.

While I see your point I kind of disagree in that I think it was Mcilorum who initially tried to target Mose for, what could be, no good reason. He missed the first shot he tried and came off second best under the sticks against him. (It also didn't help that Crosby came on around that time and he's a shadow of the player that was developing for the last year or 2) Like I said Wigan had played Walmsley (and Leeds' pack before that) really well with controlled tactics but that went out of the window when Mose came on.
Whether that is down to Mose's quality or bad tactics from Wigan is down to interpretation, but useless lump or not, he certainly turned the game in your favour.