Re: 19 man Squad v Widnes : Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:17 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

I defend Mose when he deserves defending. He took a dog's abuse for much of last season. Yet he was the only guy who consistently turned out through the entire season. Admittedly, he wasn't in great shape early on. But he worked HARD at his weight and that alone isn't suggestive of a player who simply doesn't care. One thing's for sure - many an opposition pack shrank visibly the minute he entered the fray. It certainly made a refreshing change watching one of our players beating up on opponents - rather than the other way around.

As for this season - perhaps he hasn't been at his best form. But until I see something in print from an official source there's no reason to believe he isn't experiencing the usual fluctuations in form which affect just about all players.

I DO believe we aren't using him correctly. Ten minute spells are neither here nor there. Cunningham needs to be getting anywhere between fifteen and eighteen minutes per session. If he doesn't believe Mose is capable of such or refuses to apply himself then for heaven's sake - drop him.

Perhaps Cunningham is a little green. But if he's somehow lacking in self-confidence and belief then he's made a damned good fist of hiding it - throughout his career. Indeed, I can think of few players who knew what they wanted are were damned sure they were going to get it at such an early age. I find it incredibly difficult to believe Keiron is somehow afraid or hesitant to make tough decisions.

In any case - it's not like Cunningham is on his own. There are plenty of guys in the team who would have no problems getting on Mose's case if they believed he was letting the club down. The most obvious example is Wellens, who, whilst on the surface is an incredibly mild-mannered and affable character, is more than willing to blow a fuse should things take a direction for the worse.

Maybe there is a problem with Mose. I don't know. But I do know with strong-willed characters like Keiron and Wello about any sustained intransigence by a difficult player will almost certainly spill over into disharmony. But given the way Saints have continued to fight even facing an obvious defeat this is not suggestive of a club where players are at each others throats. As experienced watchers will know - the first thing that goes in such circumstances is the effort.

Fair points from you & Saddened, although I wasn't suggesting Cunningham wasn't strong enough to make tough decisions, just perhaps giving Mose more chances to burst into life, so to speak.

I want to see Mose looking for the ball, doing the unglamorous work of taking it out of the 20, doing longer spells, being 1st in the tackle instead of 3rd. I want a nasty streak, the opposition fans booing him etc

Re: 19 man Squad v Widnes : Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:54 pm  

Twentyman wrote:

Fair points from you & Saddened, although I wasn't suggesting Cunningham wasn't strong enough to make tough decisions, just perhaps giving Mose more chances to burst into life, so to speak.

I want to see Mose looking for the ball, doing the unglamorous work of taking it out of the 20, doing longer spells, being 1st in the tackle instead of 3rd. I want a nasty streak, the opposition fans booing him etc

I don't disagree. I mean, it's all well and good taking pot-shots at Mose for not being this or not being that. But I tell ya - we'll miss him when he's gone. It's very rare to have someone in your side who literally strikes terror into opponents. It's amazing the number of supposed SL "tough guys" who strangely go missing whenever Mose enters the field. Barrie McDemott pretty much summed him up - he's terrifying. One of those awful, awful players whose blood-curdling grin just gets wider and wider the more you hit him.

For all the criticism he attracts I don't recall anyone complaining when he single-handedly wiped the floor with Wigan's pack at the JJB last season. It was comical watching pie-eater after pie-eater being bowled over like pins on a hustler's lane.

That said - he has to be very careful not to step over the line. Listen to any miked up game and every third word out of the ref's mouth is aimed at Mose. Half the time he's doing nothing wrong - but the sheer size and playing style of the guy puts him right at the top of the ref's pre-match "to do" list. I'm all for physical play (especially when it's focused on pie-eaters) but Mose could very easily drift into Vila Matautia territory. Vila was a big, big guy. But Mose is probably bigger. I dread to think the kind of damage he could inflict if he really meant to hurt someone. Targeted aggression is the key.

Re: 19 man Squad v Widnes : Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:38 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

It's not that simple. Mose is fitter than he's ever been at Saints and should be playing more minutes. He was forced to in one game earlier this season and did fine, having probably his best game for us. Last week he wasn't lazy, he just wasn't on the field. He had no impact in his first stint, but it wasn't his fault. He was looking for tackles, Leeds were avoiding him by throwing the ball around to bypass the forward battle, which they did really well, or by running into the gap between our back rower and centre. He spent most of that first spell chasing the ball around. He also had very little chance to make any carries as he got no ball, look at the one pass he did receive, it was about an inch off the floor when it reached him and a foot behind him.

Mose isn't useless. His size attracts players in big numbers and even if he makes no gain, he's taking four men out of the line, which means the next play the ball has at least two recovering their position as the ball is played, which results in bigger metres there.

If KC isn't happy with his effort, he should give him longer on the field, rather than the pathetic spells he's getting currently. If he's genuinely not trying in those, don't pick him.

Spot on regarding the Leeds game. Mose's first stint Saints hardly touched the ball which reduced his effectiveness greatly.

Re: 19 man Squad v Widnes : Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:56 am  

Judder Man wrote:

I,ve been saying this for quite a while now, we are not smart enough to use Mose in the correct way
Maybe KC is losing patience or perhaps frustrated in his non involvement so brings him off instead of getting instructions to him.
Now that Walshy is back maybe we will see some set plays with the big fella.

I hate it when a player doesn't pull his weight. It probably goes back t when I was a small and hard working forward and I'd see men with 3 stone on me reluctant to get their hands dirty.

However, hard work or nought, I don't think people realise the spectrum of benefits that masoe gives us.
First of all, he's mahoosive, he is very physically imposing. Whilst he might not pile it in 3 times a set, he certainly takes some stopping when he hits the line. That mean he's automatically on a defenders mind and will get more than his fair share of attention - that's how we get gaps appearing elsewhere.
His yard per drive is high, so he puts the defence on the back foot.
Those 1 or 2 penalties a game when he leaves his shoulder in onto a playmanker, whilst initially frustrating, carry a massive psychological factor. Half back know that this monster is there and wanting to smash them, which will subconsciously affect their decision to show and go.
He likes to get under the opposition's skin, he likes it when tempers flare and he doesn't need to worry since he's 10% bigger than closest rival. Things get tastey, handbags get thrown about and he's there, in the thick of it, with that big grin.
He doesn't go hiding in the big games, when things get rough.

Re: 19 man Squad v Widnes : Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:06 am  

Now I remember where I saw that grin before!

Mose Masoe - I christen thee - "Bigfoot".

Re: 19 man Squad v Widnes : Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:26 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

Thinking on the topic for a moment, I don't see why we don't experiment with Mose from the start. Whilst I'm more than happy with our current strength in the forwards our pattern of play has largely been fixed since two thirds into last season.

We really don't want to become too rigid and - predictable. Teams watch the videos midweek and (sans injuries) know which of our players will be on the field at any particular juncture. A good coach can exploit predictable behaviour.

I'd much prefer our opponents being far less certain about who will be on the pitch and when. Besides, this takes a lot of the strain off guys like Amor who don't possess Mose's frame and are thus more likely to get knocked about when the big tackles go in early on.

And tonight we saw the value in that. I thought he had his best game of the season. Mugwump called it correctly.