Re: Halfbacks for 2014 : Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:24 pm  

I agree that last year Brown took his honeymoon period to the max. But I do think some of it was needed.

I would have preferred he shock the team up in the first few games then settled. I'd give Turner 6-8 games at that point it should be clear if he can cut it. If all the games are unmitigated disasters then I'm sure Wheeler or Lance will be back in place.

Re: Halfbacks for 2014 : Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:38 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

Going back to the Turner to Stand off.
I think most would say that Turner has done a good job at Centre. Far better than the much vaunted Shenton.

Now if you look at his skills as a player and the skills that Kevin Brown had when playing centre. Brown (the coach) has taken a somewhat shakey but decent centre in Kevin Brown and moulded him into a Stand Off.
If he can do that there is an arguement that he has form for taking players from one position and finding them a better one.

Even with Lomax last year he showed that he can take a player who has played one role and find a better position that matches their skill set.

I think benefit of the doubt should be given on this one as his form for moving players is good. It does worry me that in the Centre's we will be at bare bones.

Kev Brown was almost always a standoff at Wigan. I think it was Brown who moved him to centre and loose forward. He does like to tinker doesn't he?

He's done the similar with Michael Lawrence, who was an outstanding prospect at centre and now finds himself as back up second row.

Re: Halfbacks for 2014 : Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:35 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Kev Brown was almost always a standoff at Wigan. I think it was Brown who moved him to centre and loose forward. He does like to tinker doesn't he?

He's done the similar with Michael Lawrence, who was an outstanding prospect at centre and now finds himself as back up second row.

Whilst not wanting to derail the thread...

Kevin Brown at Wigan played

18 times from the bench
35 times wing/centre
14 times at Stand off
2 times at FB
1 time at LF


At Huddersfield Brown has played

13 times at centre
125 times at Standoff/halfback
2 times from the bench
21 times at LF


So I beg to differ.

It is true that in his final season at Huddersfield he played LF for almost the full year. But it's also true to say that in his last year at Huddersfield there was a lot of shuffling players about.

But your memory of him at Wigan must be failing you. Unless you are counting games outside of the first team.

Re: Halfbacks for 2014 : Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:54 pm  

With regard to Turner at 6.

I look at this a number of ways.

It may be Nathan Brown throwing a curve ball and trying to get opposition coaches off balance as to what our team structure will likely be.
Then again it could be about making various players know that their position on the pitch isn't guaranteed, I'm not merely thinking of Lance in that regard. I'm including Turner, who despite winning the clubs player of the year last year, may find himself displaced by some of our young guns at centre if he doesn't keep his standards up.

I am also conscious that coaches have to think not just for now, but also even a couple of years down the line with regard to the structure of the squad. Therefore its essential to have "irons in the fire" through developing players talents, so that they may be able to fill a position when a vacancy occurs. In two years time both Lance Hohoias contract and Luke Walsh contract are up. We could lose both players. In such a situation we would need someone with experience at the club to step into one of the positions, otherwise we will be deep in trouble having to find two halfbacks. It therefore makes sense to spend some time developing Turner, so that he can play standoff if the need arises. Ideally of course we will bring through a junior, or a miracle will happen and Gary Wheeler will be over his injury problems.

I also think that by developing Turner as an optional standoff it should develop his game awareness. This will improve his footballing ability and as a side result make him a better centre.

Personally I think once the season starts we may go with Lance at standoff, but then after 30 mins take Roby off and move Lance to hooker with Wheeler coming on at standoff. Lance could then go off the field at the 50 minute mark and be replaced by Roby for the last 30 mins. I appreciate this looks somewhat disruptive for Saints,however it makes it harder for clubs to target Roby and Lance to tire them out. England did something similar with Roby in the world cup.

Re: Halfbacks for 2014 : Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:26 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

Whilst not wanting to derail the thread...

Kevin Brown at Wigan played

18 times from the bench
35 times wing/centre
14 times at Stand off
2 times at FB
1 time at LF


At Huddersfield Brown has played

13 times at centre
125 times at Standoff/halfback
2 times from the bench
21 times at LF


So I beg to differ.

It is true that in his final season at Huddersfield he played LF for almost the full year. But it's also true to say that in his last year at Huddersfield there was a lot of shuffling players about.

But your memory of him at Wigan must be failing you. Unless you are counting games outside of the first team.

I was, I watched him from being 16 years of age and he was predominantly stand off. He is probably the one player from that group who has left Wigan that I would have kept ( Hansen is another but he did stay for a long spell)

Re: Halfbacks for 2014 : Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:01 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

We could lose both players. .

Why is this in bold for dramatic effect? You state that as if Hohaia is a positive influence. I really don't see what relevance the expiry of two players' contracts in two years time to Jordan Turner being moved to stand off.

Re: Halfbacks for 2014 : Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:48 pm  

The Chair Maker wrote:

With regard to Turner at 6.

I look at this a number of ways.

It may be Nathan Brown throwing a curve ball and trying to get opposition coaches off balance as to what our team structure will likely be.
Then again it could be about making various players know that their position on the pitch isn't guaranteed, I'm not merely thinking of Lance in that regard. I'm including Turner, who despite winning the clubs player of the year last year, may find himself displaced by some of our young guns at centre if he doesn't keep his standards up.

I am also conscious that coaches have to think not just for now, but also even a couple of years down the line with regard to the structure of the squad. Therefore its essential to have "irons in the fire" through developing players talents, so that they may be able to fill a position when a vacancy occurs. In two years time both Lance Hohoias contract and Luke Walsh contract are up. We could lose both players. In such a situation we would need someone with experience at the club to step into one of the positions, otherwise we will be deep in trouble having to find two halfbacks. It therefore makes sense to spend some time developing Turner, so that he can play standoff if the need arises. Ideally of course we will bring through a junior, or a miracle will happen and Gary Wheeler will be over his injury problems.

I also think that by developing Turner as an optional standoff it should develop his game awareness. This will improve his footballing ability and as a side result make him a better centre.

Personally I think once the season starts we may go with Lance at standoff, but then after 30 mins take Roby off and move Lance to hooker with Wheeler coming on at standoff. Lance could then go off the field at the 50 minute mark and be replaced by Roby for the last 30 mins. I appreciate this looks somewhat disruptive for Saints,however it makes it harder for clubs to target Roby and Lance to tire them out. England did something similar with Roby in the world cup.

Lomax, Jones, Percival, Walsh, Soliola, Wilkin, Hohaia, Masoe, Clough, Flanaghan, Beaumont, Dawson and Charnock are all out of contract at the end of 2015. Walsh has an option of a 3rd year. If we lose ALL those players, then yes we certainly will be lacking some experience ...and players!

Re: Halfbacks for 2014 : Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:36 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

It is true that in his final season at Huddersfield he played LF for almost the full year. But it's also true to say that in his last year at Huddersfield there was a lot of shuffling players about..

But just because he's named at 13 doesn't mean he's being asked to do a traditional loose forwards job. We played with 3 pivots on occasion last year and the man named at 13 was playing a half back's role.

Re: Halfbacks for 2014 : Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:01 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

I was, I watched him from being 16 years of age and he was predominantly stand off. He is probably the one player from that group who has left Wigan that I would have kept ( Hansen is another but he did stay for a long spell)

Well in that case fair enough. But Turner has also played other roles before so it's not completely out of the blue.

Same for Lomax to FB etc.

I got it wrong on Brown anyway (Kevin). It was Jon Sharp who moved him to 6 not Nathan. I had not realized he had been at Huddersfield for as long as he was.