Re: Nathan Brown - What do we think? : Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:30 pm  

Still too early to judge. The run in and play-offs will give some indication.

Good new signings this year and for next. The success or otherwise of his wild
cards Beaumont and Dawson will be interesting as much as ow Walsh goes.

Good blooding of youngsters, the contrast to last year is stark.

Has ridden the bad times well and has been saddled with many injuries
and some real turkeys (Perry and Hohaia)

Still don't know how much real freedom from McManus, Rush and Cunningham he has.

Can't understand his like of Howarth.

Can't understand where he is on Wellens. Brave enough to move him from FB
but always needs to accommodate him somewhere.

An early barometer will be how many current players are retained.
Boof Ade Flanagan and Wellens and the ability to shift or loan out others
Clough , Wheeler , Hohaia. Signs are not good in this regard.

How next season unfolds will be the best and fairest time to judge Brown.

Lots of positives under difficult circumstances but some real question marks
over his level of autonomy and his ability to fully cut the cord with the old guard.

Saints have come this far with him, he needs time and space to see it through.

Re: Nathan Brown - What do we think? : Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:43 pm  

since Brown copied Simmons and shifted Meli to centre)

I'm not sure that it's right to say that Brown copied Simmons in moving Meli. Given the abundant evidence that Brown is a deep thinker about the game it seems more likely that he's weighed the evidence (some of which will be different to that used by Simmons, since they faced different problems with different resources available to solve them) and come to a similar conclusion. It's not the first tome that this has happened (look at Newton and Leibniz for example) and it won't be the last.

Re: Nathan Brown - What do we think? : Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:55 am  

It's difficult to fully judge him yet as he's still working with a squad that isn't his and where mistakes where made under Potter & Simmons e.g. Perry, Hohaia.

I like the fact he's identified where our weaknesses are - half back and at prop and we've now managed to secure a half back, 2 props and we're looking at a stand off and another forward too.

Whilst injuries has crippled us we have seen some really good development of some of the younger players this season. Makinson looks to have kicked on again after being hit and miss at times last season and the likes of Swift, Thompson, Walker, Jones, Percival etc have all become fairly prominent members of the side now.

I also think he's spotted where some of our players should be playing instead of putting them in there to fill a gap. Lomax is the prime example. Some of us knew he was a full back and most of us knew he wasn't a half back. Instead of persisting with him in that position, Brown noticed this quickly and moved him. Sure it's left us short at half back, but your best players need to be playing where they are most effective and Lomax is better at full back than at 7. This will be even more noticeable next year with a recognised half guiding us around the park and supplying good ball to Lomax and the backs.

On the flip side, some of our performances this year have been beyond pathetic. Widnes and Hull KR at home were horrific and it has seemed at times that we have lacked committment and drive. Whilst things are rosey now, we shouldn't forget how poor we were early doors and realistically the best we can hope for is 5th which would equal our worst position in the SL era.

Our defence and discipline in particular has been poor this season, although this seems to have picked up in the last 6 or 7 weeks. Maybe it's an attitude thing with the players? But I would say it's upto the coach to instil a mentality into the players and ensure they are professional enough to go about their jobs correctly.

I'm also a little bit wary of the sentimental value we still place on certain players at the club. Wellens being the prime example but also players like Gardner and Laffranchi too who aren't really good enough anymore.

And finally, how many of the coaching methods have led to the unfortunate injuries or is this purely a conditioning issue? I'm not sure but I've never known an 'injury crisis' like it at Saints and it all can't be put down to luck surely?

I've holding my full judgment until next season when he has a side that's more like his. Hopefully we can cause a few problems in the play offs, but I don't think any of us realistically believe we will be at Old Trafford this year. I think if we make the Semi Final we've done well considering.

Re: Nathan Brown - What do we think? : Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:49 am  

I'm another that is reserving judgement.

Some of the stuff we saw early on was woeful, just woeful.
I held on to the belief that Brown was breaking us down in order to build us up away from the basic, limited moves and game plan that Rush had employed the year before. Potter's teams had a similar game plan and while Royce managed to get the ball wide a little, mainly through his success with the Lomaskell partnership, his overall success was patchy.

This blind optimism could be seen to be correct as we've started to turn in some decent performances, but in terms of Brown being a success, I'd say he's broken even following a bad start and now has to start earning credit. We'll see what the playoffs bring, I suppose.

Re: Nathan Brown - What do we think? : Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:02 am  

I think he looks like he's still in the 80's with his open shirt down to his belly, he'll be in flairs next?

Re: Nathan Brown - What do we think? : Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:30 pm  

Rommel wrote:

I think he looks like he's still in the 80's with his open shirt down to his belly, he'll be in flairs next?

He is an Aussie , what do you expect !

Re: Nathan Brown - What do we think? : Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:38 pm  

I'll reserve judgment until next season. He's bringing in his own players rather than being left a team. A season with his recruits would be a fair assessment of where he's at.

Re: Nathan Brown - What do we think? : Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:02 pm  

Simeon Stylites wrote:

since Brown copied Simmons and shifted Meli to centre)

I'm not sure that it's right to say that Brown copied Simmons in moving Meli. Given the abundant evidence that Brown is a deep thinker about the game it seems more likely that he's weighed the evidence (some of which will be different to that used by Simmons, since they faced different problems with different resources available to solve them) and come to a similar conclusion. It's not the first tome that this has happened (look at Newton and Leibniz for example) and it won't be the last.

This old Calculus Controversy comes up time and again on here. The battle lines are well drawn by now.

Re: Nathan Brown - What do we think? : Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:30 pm  

I think Blobby above gives a well balanced opinion. A lot of it (probably all tbh) is very accurate.

Obviously his first year is only going to tell us so much with the state of the squad. I think what it has told us though is that he is making us play a better way than previously and he's building a squad. Something that our previous coaches have not left us with. Don't forget, this was a massive job for whoever came in. It obviously isn't something that involved a quick fix

I think the signs are positive and I think we can be optimistic of what is to come.

Re: Nathan Brown - What do we think? : Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:42 pm  

St. Rughead wrote:

I'll reserve judgment until next season. He's bringing in his own players rather than being left a team. A season with his recruits would be a fair assessment of where he's at.

That's about right