Re: Are the likes of Lenagan, Hetherington&CO killing the ga : Wed May 01, 2013 3:47 pm  

Great, finally someone who is going to debate the thread properly

You need to look at this article in a different light, I think. Koukash at Salford has turned heads, but it's a one-off. The rest of our clubs are struggling financially except for Wigan, Leeds and Warrington. If we lifted the cap, without any question the three clubs who would rapidly depart from any meaningful competition with the rest of the league would be Wigan, Leeds and Warrington, and I doubt Koukash will spend consistently as much as would be needed from his own pocket at Salford to remain in competition for very long.

So you could interpret Leneghan's opposition to raising the salary cap as a very enlightened view which is actually to the detriment of his own club, but for the benefit of the majority of other clubs in the league.

I'm not actually sure what hit the nerve about this article, may be it's just a culmination of bad news coming from RL in general (and Saints' poor performances!) that I've put into reading this article and going a bit OTT - Uni finals are not helping either!

I suppose it's all about interpretation, but I see the article as 'we're ok with the salary cap at x, so we aren't bothered'. Maybe that is wrong, but I do question the rationale for giving such quotes for an article. Maybe it is, as you say, regarding Koukash at Salford and showing that we need to develop SL clubs sustainably. But these views (from Hetherington at least) existed far before Koukash sat next to fat Nige on that plane. So maybe I'm a bit cynical as to thinking that they are using Koukash as a vehicle for their own interests. Why woud they want to spend more money than they have to. It is working for them atm and any lifting of the salary cap will mean they will have to spend more money.

I know it probably would be a disaster for the salary cap to rise NOW, but to not entertain the possibility in the future is damaging IMO. Maybe the article is just poorly written and leading me to the wrong conclusions, but that's the feeling that I get from reading it. We need to be working towards a position where the salary cap will be lifted. Maybe that is Lenagan's point, but I question WHY he has given such quotes.

Re: Are the likes of Lenagan, Hetherington&CO killing the ga : Wed May 01, 2013 4:44 pm  

Albion wrote:

I know it probably would be a disaster for the salary cap to rise NOW, but to not entertain the possibility in the future is damaging IMO. Maybe the article is just poorly written and leading me to the wrong conclusions, but that's the feeling that I get from reading it. We need to be working towards a position where the salary cap will be lifted. Maybe that is Lenagan's point, but I question WHY he has given such quotes.

Based on experience of dealing with journalists, you'd be surprised how big the gap can be between what you say, and what they write down.

I think if every SL club was paying up to the cap each year with money to spare, you'd find that most people within the game, including Leneghan, would be happy to discuss raising the bar in order to allow us to compete a little more with Union and the NRL. The problem is that many clubs don't, and those that do are usually pushing their financial envelope to do so.

Re: Are the likes of Lenagan, Hetherington&CO killing the ga : Wed May 01, 2013 5:54 pm  

Albion, dont be such a a.rse, radford did not have a go at the club, why didnt you say he was having a go at st helens then ? Talk about trying to stir something up

Re: Are the likes of Lenagan, Hetherington&CO killing the ga : Wed May 01, 2013 5:57 pm  

on subject, we clearly need things to change, a lot of clubs having a rough time, rl is such a great sport and long may it continue to be,

Re: Are the likes of Lenagan, Hetherington&CO killing the ga : Wed May 01, 2013 6:02 pm  

hull2524 wrote:

Albion, dont be such a a.rse, radford did not have a go at the club, why didnt you say he was having a go at st helens then ? Talk about trying to stir something up

Because St Helens voted against the changes. Hull FC voted for them.

He wasn't expressly having a pop at the club, but do you think that having a go at a system (that his club voted for) is congratulating the club on a fanastic decision? I don't.

Re: Are the likes of Lenagan, Hetherington&CO killing the ga : Wed May 01, 2013 9:31 pm  

Never said he was congratulating it, you are trying to make out he was having a go at the club, he wasnt, end of move on,

Re: Are the likes of Lenagan, Hetherington&CO killing the ga : Thu May 02, 2013 6:34 am  

hull2524 wrote:

Never said he was congratulating it, you are trying to make out he was having a go at the club, he wasnt, end of move on,

He was having a go at Hull and others, dont be so defensive, he's right.

Re: Are the likes of Lenagan, Hetherington&CO killing the ga : Thu May 02, 2013 6:33 pm  

Roy Haggerty wrote:

Based on experience of dealing with journalists, you'd be surprised how big the gap can be between what you say, and what they write down.

I think if every SL club was paying up to the cap each year with money to spare, you'd find that most people within the game, including Leneghan, would be happy to discuss raising the bar in order to allow us to compete a little more with Union and the NRL. The problem is that many clubs don't, and those that do are usually pushing their financial envelope to do so.

there are a few reasons why i disagree with this,

firstly, whilst i agree with the important nature of the sustainability of clubs, im not sure on the importance of the profitability,

Secondly, i think it is fundamentally wrong for Leneghan, Hetherington, Pearson, McManus et al to be in charge of the SC. I think it is wrong in pretty much every aspect, for the people who are together deciding the level of the SC to also be the ones who are looking to make money out of the game. There is a vested interest for club chairmen to keep wages at a profitable level. I dont know why we would see Ian Leneghans ability to make a profit as any more important than Sam Tomkins to earn a market wage.

Thirdly, i would disagree that there is a direct correlation between lower wages and increased profitability. There is logic in an argument that states higher wages would lead to better players, which provides a better product which more people are willing to pay more money to watch. Our sustainability is based on the relationship between revenue and costs, effecting either in isolation is pointless. If cutting our costs cuts our revenue its worse than pointless, its counter-productive.

Whilst everyone loves to say a club which failed did so because it failed to 'cut its cloth accordingly', they miss the fact that if you keep 'cutting your cloth accordingly' you will eventually just end up with a very small piece of cloth. People will always say a club which went bust did so because it spent too much, but it is just as valid to say it was because they didnt bring enough in.

We as a game really need to stop looking at things, especially wages, and looking at them solely as costs and not revenue drivers. It doesnt matter if the wages suddenly went up to £10m a year, if it gets us a £150m per year TV deal then it isnt profligate.