Re: Unacceptable : Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:38 pm  

wakey_saint wrote:

Makinson is a good player and does ok at full back, for me the main issue is twice last week he opted to throw a poor attempt at a cut out pass straight to the winger rather than a short ball to the centre which bombed 2 tries for us. That aside he is pretty solid and I have no issue with him playing there (although as soon as Lomax is back he will surely play at 1)

Makinson to the halves is a joke and anybody who thinks putting him there is a good move is surely a few sandwiches short of a picnic. As mentioned above, he doesnt seem to have the ability to pass a ball very well (a fundamental for a half back) and pace alone isnt just what we need to inject into the halves.

Was listening to Brown and he mentions that very point.

I mean the best players can pull these passes off, merely because they are the 'best players'. Makinson's passing game is ok, but nowhere near the standard where he can afford to try this, especially the last chance to Swift.

I'm confident that Lomax would have executed that pass far better or made a smarter pass choice, but it wasn't to be.

Re: Unacceptable : Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:55 pm  

Albion wrote:

Was listening to Brown and he mentions that very point.

Although it wasn't really necessary for him to mention it at all, he couched is as 'young players like to play long passes, don't they?' or words to that effect. However, even a backdoor criticism was unnecessary, unless he was also going to apply the same approach to say LMS, who gave away penalties at crucial moments or others who missed tackles at important points.

It really annoys me when coaches pick on one player to cricitise, even by the backdoor.

Re: Unacceptable : Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:39 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

Makinson has extra pace though. As we know, what you do without the ball is also important. If Makinson can develop his movement when goign behind our 1st phase attackers to join the line, the pace of which he can do it should really disturb the oppo defences and create spce for other players.

Lomax is hardly slow himself is he, and his ball playing ability and footwork make him such a threat out the back. Although he isnt a 7, his stint at Scrum Half will help him massively as a Full Back, and that was evident when he played there. Makinson reminds me of Lomax when he first burst onto the scene in 2010 in the fact that he doesn't quite have the ball skills to play in a pivotal position, but is slightly wasted on the wing. As I say, Lomax's decision making is generally pretty good, and the experience of playing at 7 has improved him enourmously.

Makinson looks as though he is a winger playing at Full Back for me, and although he is doing reasonably well, it's not his natural position.

In terms of his pass selection, that will improve with experience. You tend to find that young players look to play the long pass before the short pass, but as I say, the decision making side of his game will improve the more he plays there. Whether he gets those opportunities long term is another matter, and the answer is quite obvious IMO.

Re: Unacceptable : Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:40 am  

Offside Monkey wrote:

A full back shouldn't have to make any tackles. Every time it does it will be because of a failing of the defensive line.

Stats are very useful, but should never be used as 100% of your theory. They should be used to complement what we see with our own eyes.

Makinson is a good fullback - probably a better full back than a winger, but Lomax was a revelation with only a 4 game run there.

One needs to be careful about players becoming overnight sensations when covering positions. Usually it has a lot to do with that player's ability but there are other reasons they can sometimes shine:

They see things differently from the previous player, not be constrained by years of playing that role/position
They may be completely hacked off in their previous position and relish the chance to be away from it
They may just be better than the player they have replaced
They may just catch the opposition unawares as there's less information for them to prepare against this 'new man'
Anyone can have a run of good games (in any position)

In Lomax's case, he's clearly a very good player and no doubt can cope with full back on a longer term, career basis but there have been many 'revelations' if one only looks at a short representative timespan.....in fact, Lee Smith once won the Harry Sunderland trophy which earned him a place in a World Cup and he was, is and always will be, dog dirt.

Re: Unacceptable : Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:32 am  

wakey_saint wrote:

Makinson to the halves is a joke and anybody who thinks putting him there is a good move is surely a few sandwiches short of a picnic. As mentioned above, he doesnt seem to have the ability to pass a ball very well (a fundamental for a half back) and pace alone isnt just what we need to inject into the halves.

I'm presuming SaintsFan is talking about the Academy system, where we seem to have played a number of players in a number of roles to develop aspects of their game.

Re: Unacceptable : Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:33 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

Although it wasn't really necessary for him to mention it at all, he couched is as 'young players like to play long passes, don't they?' or words to that effect. However, even a backdoor criticism was unnecessary, unless he was also going to apply the same approach to say LMS, who gave away penalties at crucial moments or others who missed tackles at important points.

It really annoys me when coaches pick on one player to cricitise, even by the backdoor.

The coach may regard it as the best way to motivate the player, he knows his mentality more than any of us on here.

Re: Unacceptable : Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:35 am  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

The coach may regard it as the best way to motivate the player, he knows his mentality more than any of us on here.

Maybe. It doesn't sound particularly nice though.

Re: Unacceptable : Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:35 am  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

I'm presuming SaintsFan is talking about the Academy system, where we seem to have played a number of players in a number of roles to develop aspects of their game.

Yep, that's what I was referring to.

Re: Unacceptable : Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:01 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

Brown said in interview that Makinson is a different kind of player to Lomax so I would imagine different things are being asked of him, wouldn't you?

Well I would expect that's a given. You wouldn't expect a coach to ask a prop to play like a fullback would you? ( Highly exaggerated to push a point before saintsfan gets on her high horse ).

Makinsons skillset is different therefore he could not do what Jonny does. He will play fullback in his own way to his strengths. Is it then all down to opinion who is the better fullback.

Re: Unacceptable : Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:06 am  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

The coach may regard it as the best way to motivate the player, he knows his mentality more than any of us on here.

Good coaches know what buttons to press with certain players. This could possibly be a way of getting a reaction from the player.

Some players need a arm around them, some need to be left to their own devices, some need to me told straight and some need to be told one on one. As a player I liked to be pulled to one side and told straight if I was doing something wrong, my mentality was, " I'll show him".

A little off topic. Brown has done all the above with Gaskell and seems he's burnt all his bridges at saints.