Re: Wakefield Match Thread - St Helens 42 v 12 Wakefield FT : Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:46 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

In the end, if it's our fringes where we are exposed then we have little to worry about. The quality of outside backs in SL is poor and the halves are not much better. If you don't get punched up the middle in the forwards then bar the odd couple of players, there is not much threat outwide.

There is against Wigan and Wire. They both exposed us on the fringes last season, and we'll need to smarten up if we want to pick up silverware.

Re: Wakefield Match Thread - St Helens 42 v 12 Wakefield FT : Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:55 pm  

Dux wrote:

There is against Wigan and Wire. They both exposed us on the fringes last season, and we'll need to smarten up if we want to pick up silverware.

Wigan's centres this year will be Goulding and Hughes/Thornley. I wouldn't say there's much quality there. On the other hand Warrington have Atkins and Monaghan down one side which is a pretty lethal combination (about 50 tries between them last season), I definitely know who I'd rather be up against. There aren't many teams that'll threaten us out wide.

Re: Wakefield Match Thread - St Helens 42 v 12 Wakefield FT : Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:02 pm  

Fringe defence is all about communication, and having an understanding with the players inside and outside you. You can put in all the defensive strategies you like, but at the end of the day it is about making the right decisions and trusting the players around you. Jones is solid defensively, and I would expect Gaskell to defend outside of him, and with Manu defending down that side as well we should be pretty solid down the left, The big question mark defensively will be down the right, and Wakefield, and Reece Lyne found some joy down that side.

I love to see Sia flying into tackles, but he needs to learn to assess the situation first before commenting himself and taking himself out of the game. Wigan in particular were superb at this last year, and had the players out side to exploit any sort of overlap. As soon as they get Tomkins running on the inside shoulder of the centre and the outside of the second rower, he is practically unstoppable and will punish you.

Wigan will miss Carmont hugely in that respect, and I expect Warrington will be the most dangerous this year out wide. With the pace of Monaghan, Ratchford, Atkins and Riley out wide, an with the lines and decoy runs of Trent Waterhouse in particular, they will be deadly if given the opportunity.

Re: Wakefield Match Thread - St Helens 42 v 12 Wakefield FT : Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:02 pm  

St. Rughead wrote:

Wigan's centres this year will be Goulding and Hughes/Thornley. I wouldn't say there's much quality there. On the other hand Warrington have Atkins and Monaghan down one side which is a pretty lethal combination (about 50 tries between them last season), I definitely know who I'd rather be up against. There aren't many teams that'll threaten us out wide.

It's not just centres, though. Against Wigan it's Tomkins hovering behind the attacking line that puts so much pressure on defenders' decision making (although admittedly teams will be able to focus on Tomkins more now that Carmont isn't there). Against Wire it was mainly Waterhouse who caused havoc in our edge defence.

Re: Wakefield Match Thread - St Helens 42 v 12 Wakefield FT : Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:12 pm  

I was not suggesting that fringe defense is irrelevant, but if it's your one weakness then you are doing pretty well. No team is perfect and teams will improve as the season goes on, but if we start solid in the middle of the park then teams have to be pretty good to beat us.

Also last year I recall Wigan running round our edges, but also directly through the middle of us.

If Sia is going to fly out the line then Tomkins would be an ideal candidate to fly at. Some players and Tomkins is becoming one, tend to get shown a little too much respect and get stood off by a whole raft of players, therefore giving them more time to make decisions and to hold the ball.

When Meli crunched him in the exiles match, he thought twice about running the ball, hit the man hard and hit him legally then see how often he runs down that channel.

Re: Wakefield Match Thread - St Helens 42 v 12 Wakefield FT : Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:40 am  

ball in the hand the 13 has a good bit of freedom to go where he wants in attack, maybe in defance the 13 moves out wide and defends in the second row keeping things soild and give sia that little bit of freedom not leaving us open or exposed....just an idea to play to all our strenghts

Re: Wakefield Match Thread - St Helens 42 v 12 Wakefield FT : Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:51 am  

feilds of knowsleyRD wrote:

ball in the hand the 13 has a good bit of freedom to go where he wants in attack, maybe in defance the 13 moves out wide and defends in the second row keeping things soild and give sia that little bit of freedom not leaving us open or exposed....just an idea to play to all our strenghts

Wilkin's work rate defensively is superb, and along with Roby is our toptackler. If he were to defend in just one particular area we would lose that, and the extra responsibly is Roby's shoulders would make him less effective on attack.

Re: Wakefield Match Thread - St Helens 42 v 12 Wakefield FT : Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:57 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

I think we're going to miss Shenny this season as his defence was his strength. Turner comes with a rep so far as defence goes. Aside from a tendency to come in from his wing, Makinson's defence hasn't been an issue. In fact he has sometimes put on some outstanding efforts at defence.

I'd love to know where people get this myth from. He missed more tackles than any other player in our squad last season. If defence was his strength, I'd hate to know what his weakness was. And before you claim he missed more because he tackled more than most, he wasn't in the top 10 for tackles made.

Re: Wakefield Match Thread - St Helens 42 v 12 Wakefield FT : Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:11 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

I was not suggesting that fringe defense is irrelevant, but if it's your one weakness then you are doing pretty well. No team is perfect and teams will improve as the season goes on, but if we start solid in the middle of the park then teams have to be pretty good to beat us.

Also last year I recall Wigan running round our edges, but also directly through the middle of us.

If Sia is going to fly out the line then Tomkins would be an ideal candidate to fly at. Some players and Tomkins is becoming one, tend to get shown a little too much respect and get stood off by a whole raft of players, therefore giving them more time to make decisions and to hold the ball.

When Meli crunched him in the exiles match, he thought twice about running the ball, hit the man hard and hit him legally then see how often he runs down that channel.

Given the number of times Sia misses those crunching tackles that could be a recipe for disaster. Keep the line tight and don't leave space for him to run through would be my first thought, any big hits would be a bonus.