Re: Prop and stand off : Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:57 pm  

Man of Steel wrote:

I've been saying all year how much I want Lomax at 6 and Lee Gaskell at 7. I'm a tradionalist I grew up with the scrum half dictating the play with organisation and also a kicking game. Lee Gaskell albeit nothing like the finished article should get a run at making that position his own. Everyone else gets extended runs in the side so why not Lee? He needs to play for his kicking alone if we are to challenge Wigan and Warrington.

Lomax to me is a 6. Again I look back over the years and thinking of who we have had that is similar to Lomax's attributes. Leon Pryce was a 6, Tea Ropati was a 6, Tommy Martyn was a 6 (albiet not blessed with the same pace, but quick enough). These were players that allowed the organisation to be done by the 7 and they were allowed to do their own thing. Lomax to me isn't an organisor he's a runner, with good handling ability. Take the kicking away from him and the organising and he'll do really well.

Added to that I really don't get this obsession with Lomax at full back. On what basis is everyone thinking he is a full back???? He has played their once in his career for Saints (Wakefield at home a few years ago) and I don't remember him playing there again. He may well be very good if given a run in that position but nobody has any evidence to prove this. I'd keep him at a half back position but he just needs someone working with him to help.

Occasionally, the 2nd receiver half back, which is what I think you allude to being the standoff role IS the organiser. Barrett and Lockyer were the prime examples of this, Martyn as well (although he and long tended to play left and right under Millward), Sinfield for Leeds is another one. Gaskell fits this role well and takes up that standoff position very naturally. Play centres around him, which encourages the defence out from the ruck, rather than staying narrow and numbering up on Lomax.

Lomax is a tough little lad and can have success running at the bigger men close to the ruck at 1st receiver, but only if there's some distraction further wide, otherwise they'll just be able to put up the brick wall in front of him.

Re: Prop and stand off : Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:10 pm  

We got away with our prop recruitment with Graham in the team but since as far back as Anderson left we always been short.

Now we've lost our go forward in big games as well.

There are certain position where we are well stacked in the squad - back row, full back and wing and we either keep recruiting or renewing contacts in these positions.

I think we need an experienced 7 and two props - an experienced prop ( not a converted back row) and a young prop talent.

Hoahia should be moved to Full back, Gaskell in at 6 Lomax is the utility back for now with Wheeler and Makinson in the mix.

If Hohaia cant do it next year pretty sure we could unload him back to the NRL with Makinson or Lomax stepping up at 1.

To fund it we should have some cap space already but we would definately have to let wello go, dixon and probably Meli who we would miss.

Re: Prop and stand off : Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:37 pm  

Our squad of players have been in decline as far as quality goes for the past 5 years. Positions 1, 6,7, 9 and 13 pivots are much weaker in skill and execution, even Roby struggles against the likes of Wigan and Warrington.
We have stagnated with the development of the younger players, Lomax, Gaskell, Makinson and now Jones have not really moved up to that next level.
If you select the present players who could make the necessary standard for success only Soliola and Roby would be in that team.

Re: Prop and stand off : Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:42 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

Our squad of players have been in decline as far as quality goes for the past 5 years. Positions 1, 6,7, 9 and 13 pivots are much weaker in skill and execution, even Roby struggles against the likes of Wigan and Warrington.
We have stagnated with the development of the younger players, Lomax, Gaskell, Makinson and now Jones have not really moved up to that next level.
If you select the present players who could make the necessary standard for success only Soliola and Roby would be in that team.

That decline has sadly been inevitable. I still wonder exactly where on earth people expect we could have replaced Long, Scully, KC, Lyon, Albert, Gidley, Pryce, Joynt, prime Wello et al from given that almost every single player of that calibre there is is either at the end of their career or just simply not available to SL clubs anymore. I find myself going on like a cracked record again, but in real comparative terms we're maybe just 3 or 4 players away from being able to be on about the same level of competitiveness as the 2006 side (players that aren't on the market unfortunately). Whatever the truth is about our spending, ambition and recruitment since then, we could have spent 20 million quid on signings and still not be a patch on that side because that quality of player just doesn't exist at the moment in the British game.

And I think you're being more than a little harsh on Jones to be frank - as an 18 year old kid playing outside of Hohaia under Rush's tactics he's done extraordinarily well. Makinson may be mirroring Foster's decline more and more with every passing game, but he's also done pretty well this season considering.

Re: Prop and stand off : Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:46 am  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

And I think you're being more than a little harsh on Jones to be frank - as an 18 year old kid playing outside of Hohaia under Rush's tactics he's done extraordinarily well. Makinson may be mirroring Foster's decline more and more with every passing game, but he's also done pretty well this season considering.

I,m hoping Brown can develop these two players very quickly, I reckon Josh Jones will be a fantastic player reminds me of a young Billy Benyon.
Makinson has not improved much from last season and the problem is because he is stook out on the wing with very little quality service.
The club gives me the impression that Wello and Lance are nailed on for there position no matter how bad they play at the expense of younger player development.

Re: Prop and stand off : Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:11 am  

Judder Man wrote:

I,m hoping Brown can develop these two players very quickly, I reckon Josh Jones will be a fantastic player reminds me of a young Billy Benyon.
Makinson has not improved much from last season and the problem is because he is stook out on the wing with very little quality service.
The club gives me the impression that Wello and Lance are nailed on for there position no matter how bad they play at the expense of younger player development.

Josh Jones has been the player who has really impressed me this year, hardly anyone had heard of the lad before we played Warrington away. He's a big strong lad in defence and even though its been questionned about other aspects of his game, he always makes good yards and has a brilliant fend.

As regards to players sticking to postions down to being a big name, i think that trend will stick untill next year but IMO i dont think Brown will put up with that he gives me the impression you play where i say and that's final. Ever since he was annouced as the new coach i've been looking forward to see what he can do with a Saints team that lacks creativity.