Prune or cull?. : Sat May 26, 2012 6:06 pm  

The young shoots from the seedlings of the youth policy have now become established branches. As more shoots are growing is it time to prune the Saints tree of its dead wood or should there be a merciless cull. There appears to be an element of mediocrity in some of the the younger players and some older players being allowed to play at least one season too many. What appeared to be a very promising set of youngsters look to have stagnated, could this be poor coaching or are the players just not good enough for super league?. Some older players have been given extended contracts therefor it seems must be selected. Could this be another reason why the youth has not come through?. I have my own thoughts based upon this seasons performances who should be shed at the end of the current season.

Wellens Well past it.
Melli Rubish
Flannery Past it

Foster Good goal kicker end of.
Magennis Is not big enough for prop
Dixon Too inconsistent but could improve.
Wheeler Great prospect but cant hack it.
Shenton Get him off the payroll.

Re: Prune or cull?. : Sat May 26, 2012 6:18 pm  

redex113 wrote:

The young shoots from the seedlings of the youth policy have now become established branches. As more shoots are growing is it time to prune the Saints tree of its dead wood or should there be a merciless cull. There appears to be an element of mediocrity in some of the the younger players and some older players being allowed to play at least one season too many. What appeared to be a very promising set of youngsters look to have stagnated, could this be poor coaching or are the players just not good enough for super league?. Some older players have been given extended contracts therefor it seems must be selected. Could this be another reason why the youth has not come through?. I have my own thoughts based upon this seasons performances who should be shed at the end of the current season.

Wellens Well past it.
Melli Rubish
Flannery Past it

Foster Good goal kicker end of.
Magennis Is not big enough for prop
Dixon Too inconsistent but could improve.
Wheeler Great prospect but cant hack it.
Shenton Get him off the payroll.

I don't think we need a cull. We are only few players and a good coach off being a grand final winning team again with the stand off postion being the main postion of need.

I agree with most of your reviews of the above players. It is hard to get shut of that many players and replace them these days with the quota and no transfer fees.

I'd much rather see us replace the lance with a stand off and perry with a prop and add that to manu and turner and I Dont think we'd be far off.

I wouldnt lose sleek if we lost the the players you name above.

Re: Prune or cull?. : Sat May 26, 2012 10:40 pm  

...sigh.........

Re: Prune or cull?. : Sun May 27, 2012 6:04 am  

redex113 wrote:

The young shoots from the seedlings of the youth policy have now become established branches. As more shoots are growing is it time to prune the Saints tree of its dead wood or should there be a merciless cull. There appears to be an element of mediocrity in some of the the younger players and some older players being allowed to play at least one season too many. What appeared to be a very promising set of youngsters look to have stagnated, could this be poor coaching or are the players just not good enough for super league?. Some older players have been given extended contracts therefor it seems must be selected. Could this be another reason why the youth has not come through?. I have my own thoughts based upon this seasons performances who should be shed at the end of the current season.

Wellens Well past it.
Melli Rubish
Flannery Past it

Foster Good goal kicker end of.
Magennis Is not big enough for prop
Dixon Too inconsistent but could improve.
Wheeler Great prospect but cant hack it.
Shenton Get him off the payroll.

In addition to what Pete has said, don't forget the RFL rules, we must have 8 players from our own club in the squad. It's fine saying we need to have a cull. But unless you have seen someone in the under 16's or under 18's who can do a better job then why suggest a cull?

Wheeler is contracted to 2014 or 15, to cull him would take alot of money and leave Josh jones at 18 to be our centre for the whole of next year with no back up should he get injured. Gaskell was pushed into the team fulltime a few years ahead of schedule and has now had to drop back down, so being pushed into the first team every week does not garuantee success.

You could have an arguement with some, say magennis, if you feel that the like of forester can make the grade, I've only seen him in 1 short spell so not confident from that alone that it proves we should cull magennis. Maybe with more game time and matches, I maybe more inclided to agree. To cull just for culling sake could replace average players with worse???? It''s not always a one way deal.

So to answer your specific players

Wellens We have lomax, makinson and ashe and Lance ready to play this role, they need games.
Melli Not rubbish, but Makinson could play this role, but until tried we have no idea if we would lose anything as meli is a mare defending his own 10m and goal line, but is also devastaing going forwards
Flannery Has retired and Manu coming to replace (I think that's still odds on)

Foster Good goal kicker, that is not his only facet. Could argue swift or ashe could play instead though
Magennis Is not big enough for prop, but should he be playing there, other younger props not any better?
Dixon Started great but has been dropped since, however 2nd row we have plenty of cover
Wheeler Great prospect, must remember other sick notes like Martyn, don't get rid as only Jones left
Shenton As Turner is coming we don't need 4 centres and he has declined since coming to saints although maybe not his fault entirely

Re: Prune or cull?. : Sun May 27, 2012 7:01 am  

I'd certainly let Magennis go and give Forster a go, he can't be any worse than Magennis.

I think Magennis is far to small to play prop and hasn't got the power either. It's a shame as he can do some nice off loads.

It was a massive mistake to start with Magennis against Wigan on good Friday.

Re: Prune or cull?. : Sun May 27, 2012 7:23 am  

St pete wrote: I'd certainly let Magennis go and give Forster a go, he can't be any worse than Magennis. I think Magennis is far to small to play prop and hasn't got the power either. It's a shame as he can do some nice off loads. It was a massive mistake to start with Magennis against Wigan on good Friday. I'll have to bow to other people opinions on Good Friday. I have not and I doubt will ever see the GF match. Forster looked a decent ball charging prop against Wakey. But he was on for about 10 - 15 mins and only once the game was won. Whilst that's promising it's no more than frodsham about 3 or 4 years ago, so would need to see more. I guess with Magennis whilst he maybe playing prop, should he be playing prop? I though he was more a LF type??? Stolen from Saints site http://www.saintsrlfc.com/team/73 SHAUN MAGENNIS SHAUN is a back row forward who signed from Blackbrook. 2009 was a frustrating year for the youngster as he sat on the sidelines with knee injuries whilst his peers made Super League debuts. But he got his chance in 2010, making his debut at Hull FC before scoring two tries at Wakefield in a competent display. He increased that in 2011, appearing 19 times for the club proving to be a real impact off the bench. Magennis is a classic strong-running forward, with a great off-load and a fearsome tackling style.

St pete wrote: I'd certainly let Magennis go and give Forster a go, he can't be any worse than Magennis. I think Magennis is far to small to play prop and hasn't got the power either. It's a shame as he can do some nice off loads. It was a massive mistake to start with Magennis against Wigan on good Friday. I'll have to bow to other people opinions on Good Friday. I have not and I doubt will ever see the GF match. Forster looked a decent ball charging prop against Wakey. But he was on for about 10 - 15 mins and only once the game was won. Whilst that's promising it's no more than frodsham about 3 or 4 years ago, so would need to see more. I guess with Magennis whilst he maybe playing prop, should he be playing prop? I though he was more a LF type??? Stolen from Saints site http://www.saintsrlfc.com/team/73 SHAUN MAGENNIS SHAUN is a back row forward who signed from Blackbrook. 2009 was a frustrating year for the youngster as he sat on the sidelines with knee injuries whilst his peers made Super League debuts. But he got his chance in 2010, making his debut at Hull FC before scoring two tries at Wakefield in a competent display. He increased that in 2011, appearing 19 times for the club proving to be a real impact off the bench. Magennis is a classic strong-running forward, with a great off-load and a fearsome tackling style.

Re: Prune or cull?. : Sun May 27, 2012 9:45 am  

I think the move to prop has done Magennis no favours at all, he reminds me a little of Edmonson in that he's all effort, charges in like a rhino, but then get's no yardage at all or gets bounced back. He'd maybe work as the loose forward, running a little wider as he has a decent off load, but as prop he's a waste.

We don't need a mass cull, none of the youngsters are bad, they may never turn out to be world beaters but all have done a good job when in the first team so I'm happy for them to be squad men at the moment. If they get to 24-25 and they've not progressed then release them if there are younger players behind them that can do a similar job, but none really deserve the bashing they get on here.

Re: Prune or cull?. : Sun May 27, 2012 9:57 am  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

I think the move to prop has done Magennis no favours at all, he reminds me a little of Edmonson in that he's all effort, charges in like a rhino, but then get's no yardage at all or gets bounced back. He'd maybe work as the loose forward, running a little wider as he has a decent off load, but as prop he's a waste.

We don't need a mass cull, none of the youngsters are bad, they may never turn out to be world beaters but all have done a good job when in the first team so I'm happy for them to be squad men at the moment. If they get to 24-25 and they've not progressed then release them if there are younger players behind them that can do a similar job, but none really deserve the bashing they get on here.

It takes me half a page to write what he wrote.

Re: Prune or cull?. : Sun May 27, 2012 5:18 pm  

The fundamental fact is that any team that ditches proven quality players at the peak of their careers in favour of 19/20 year olds that have come into the side and played a few promising games is destined for the kind of hopeless mediocrity that most of the clueless numpty brigade think we have already attained. If just one or two out of Gaskell, Foster, Makinson, Jones, Swift, Magennis, Ashe, etc. etc. make it as top SL players in 4 or 5 years time then we'll have done well. Build a team around these players now and we'll be finishing 14th in a few seasons' time. Luckily people who know what they're doing get to make recruitment decisions at Saints and not clueless RLFans numpties or we'd be dead and buried in no time....

Re: Prune or cull?. : Sun May 27, 2012 7:03 pm  

I can never understand why Wilkin seems to be immune from criticism. I can't remember the last game in which he shone.