Re: Martin gleeson : Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:26 pm  

Saint Simon wrote:

I agree with all of that, but do you think just leaving him to his fate is wise?

Hull released Gleeson months ago and so neither Hull nor the RFL has any duty of care over Gleeson. It is his own decision how he moves forward in his life now and so yes, he should be left to his own devices. Clubs and the RFL are not parents and nor are they healthcare professionals. They are businesses and once an individual has left their employment then that individual is no longer their responsibility. That is perfectly appropriate.

I dont think he should play rugby again (professionally) but noone deserves what happened to Newton, and trying to deny that his ban had any influence on his later actions is ridiculous

I am not denying anything. I am stating a patently obvious fact: nobody but the person committing the act of suicide knows why that person is committing suicide. Those closest to the suicide are often the most ignorant of its likelihood and this is statistically more so where male suicides are concerned as males tend not to share their feelings. Women often send out 'help me' signals first.

Aside from that point, tiptoeing around accountability because one player has committed suicide is erroneous. The rules of our sport must be upheld. Everybody is made aware of them and knows them. Gleeson was responsible for his own actions. He is 31 years old for heaven's sake. He's a grown man.

Re: Martin gleeson : Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:38 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Aside from that point, tiptoeing around accountability because one player has committed suicide is erroneous. The rules of our sport must be upheld. Everybody is made aware of them and knows them. Gleeson was responsible for his own actions. He is 31 years old for heaven's sake. He's a grown man.

everyone agrees on this, but you seem alone in the idea to leave him to his own devices.
If you really think someone who has not commited a criminal act, but has ruined his own life by hy his own actions doesnt need help just to make sure they're ok, you're deluded.
Its the same for people who run people over, its tragic but another death wont help the first, just adds to more destoyed lives

Re: Martin gleeson : Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:15 pm  

Saint Simon wrote:

everyone agrees on this, but you seem alone in the idea to leave him to his own devices.

Being alone in an idea doesn't mean that my idea isn't correct, just that it is unpopular and I have never been afraid of holding unpopular ideas! He is a grown man who has misbehaved on more than one occasion (betting scandal, drink driving conviction, now using a banned substance). He has had more than his fair share of second chances.

If you really think someone who has not commited a criminal act, but has ruined his own life by hy his own actions doesnt need help just to make sure they're ok, you're deluded.

Nope. I'm not deluded.

On this occasion he wanted a quick way of losing weight and used a product containing a banned substance towards that aim, and then lied about the circumstances. There is nothing there to suggest he is anything other than ok. He just wanted a quick fix to a problem, something lots of people look for. And he has done other things that have nothing to do with him being ok or otherwise; they are just irresponsible things and he received just punishment for them also.

Some people are just irresponsible, Simon. I meet them every day in my present job. Only they are irresponsible as parents. Sometimes they commit a crime, sometimes they don't, but their children are removed from their care just the same. People young and old have to take responsibility for their own actions. Gleeson has sometimes ducked that and he continues to experience the consequences of doing so. That's his problem, not the RFL's or the club's or mine or yours. I really don't have any sympathy for him and I don't give a damn whether that is the popular view or not.

Re: Martin gleeson : Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:06 pm  

Its all gone egoistic tit tat this thread.................should be locked.

Re: Martin gleeson : Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:19 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

Its all gone egoistic tit tat this thread.................should be locked.

agreed