Re: Non playing subs : Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:37 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

I just referred to all that, above.

Simmons gave his reason for doing this at the outset of the season. Don't people read what he says on the Saints site? After being all messed around last season I would have thought all Saints fans would be happy at fielding as settled a side as possible week in, week out. It's our best chance at success this year.

Oh dear i may need to lie down, i agree with you

Re: Non playing subs : Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:45 am  

Saint Simon wrote:

Oh dear i may need to lie down, i agree with you

Old joke.

Re: Non playing subs : Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:54 am  

I can understand the settled side notion, I just think it's a complete waste having an unused sub. Why not give him 10-15 minutes at the end? It's happened twice now and we're 9 games in. We'll see how well it works overall, but if we burn out at the end of the year, that will be a contributory reason.

Re: Non playing subs : Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:56 am  

It's all very well seeing a sub not playing against a (let's be honest) bad team like Crusaders, Bradford, Hull KR etc and saying the idea works.

IMO the most dominant performances in SL between the contenders this year have been achieved through being relentless up front, with 4 forwards on the bench (Wire v Wigan, Hudds v Wire etc).

I think we'll find ourselves overrun in the big games with this approach as other teams run with 4, but time will tell.

Re: Non playing subs : Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:04 am  

Blobbynator wrote:

I can understand the settled side notion, I just think it's a complete waste having an unused sub. Why not give him 10-15 minutes at the end?

I think some of that 10 minutes at the end has been to rest Gaskell. I get the impression Gaskell played the full 80 this time? That would suggest Gaskell is now fully up to fitness for first grade.

FTV: Simmons also said in that article on Saints site that I have referred to that he will pick and choose with regard to the subs. He did acknowledge there may be times when he will need only forwards on the bench. I suppose it depends on the team we are playing.

I noticed Josh Perry went off injured at halftime. He's not yet been much of a bonus to us, has he? I hope he isn't going to turn into a Soliola mark 2!

Re: Non playing subs : Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:43 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

I just referred to all that, above.

Simmons gave his reason for doing this at the outset of the season. Don't people read what he says on the Saints site? After being all messed around last season I would have thought all Saints fans would be happy at fielding as settled a side as possible week in, week out. It's our best chance at success this year.

People can read, but does not mean they are convinced or just have a different point of view. I guess if Royce has said that it's not a dogmatic approach then I'm happy with that.

The messing around last season as I recall it though tended to come from the half back positions. ie Eastmond doing his leg in several times.

The back on the bench does not really negate that risk and as many have mentioned. There are plenty of 2nd rowers who can cover centre, with another 2nd rower on the bench to replace them. It's not messing around it's best use of resources.

If a half back was injured, that would mean Wellens or Wilkin would have to cover the halfback roll which would still mean moving several players around to cover the holes left.

Re: Non playing subs : Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:00 pm  

I'm ok with it against the perceived "weaker" teams, but as FTV alludes to, against Wigan, Wire and Hudds you could really come unstuck

Re: Non playing subs : Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:35 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

People can read, but does not mean they are convinced or just have a different point of view. I guess if Royce has said that it's not a dogmatic approach then I'm happy with that.

If they can read then they have no reason to ask why Simmons has chosen a back on the bench as he has now made his reasoning clear three times! And he said on the first occasion that it will depend upon what was needed for each match as to whether he maintains a back on the bench every week.

The messing around last season as I recall it though tended to come from the half back positions. ie Eastmond doing his leg in several times.

I think you have forgotten! At one point we had Scott Moore playing centre, for example; a position he had never previously played. James Roby played on the wing on more than one occasion. While sometimes it may be inevitable that people will play out of position, whenever possible stability is key.

There are plenty of 2nd rowers who can cover centre, with another 2nd rower on the bench to replace them. It's not messing around it's best use of resources.

Clearly, in Simmons' view, it isn't. And so far three Saints players have said in the press that they like having a regular position to play in.

If a half back was injured, that would mean Wellens or Wilkin would have to cover the halfback roll which would still mean moving several players around to cover the holes left.

Wellens is covering the halfback role anyway at present. But what is more likely is that Wheeler would cover halfback (as he is one) and Flannery would move to centre, since he has experience there. Obviously there may well be times when shunting around is inevitable, as I said before, due to the number of injuries or the positions in which the injuries have taken place. But when that isn't the situation, I would agree with Simmons that playing players out of position should not be done. It is too unsettling.