Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:36 pm  

Him wrote:

Not really. The very top NRL players who play SOO and are in the playoffs play a max of 31 games including the Grand Final. But that's probably only 1 or 2 players per club. And they have bye weeks. And half the teams seasons are 3 or 4 games fewer than that.

SL players play a max of 36

Let's take a good but not top class player in Ablett who played 36 games in 2015.
In the NRL, in a team doing the same as Leeds, he'd have played 27 games.

It's a big difference, especially when the effect is cumulative.

We have a problem because the clubs desperately need games for revenue but the players are knackered. Especially when we have smaller squads and worse facilities.

Does your 31 include the mid season international? Compare the intensity - 31 games in the NRL inc. SOO is far more tiring than 36 in SL inc CC

Most SL have weeks off when they don't progress in the CC and the WCC weekend - Leeds will have had three by the time of the CC final

Ablett is an extreme example as Leeds won everything - how many games did Danny Brough play or Jordan Turner in 2015?

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:53 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Last season was a one off - most seasons the Aussies are playing in an international series. How did the Kiwis who play in the NRL manage to maintain the appropriate level of fitness then?

Off-seasons are when you do your strength and conditioning programmes. Work during the season is primarily to maintain the strength and muscle mass you put on in the gym during the off-season.

Specifically as that references to Hardaker, he'll have been getting 4-5 weeks less of off/pre-season every year than an equivalent player in the NRL. Last season that could have been as much as eight weeks. If you can't see how that will affect the amount of muscle mass he is able to put on compared to an NRL player, then I don't know how much more clearly I can spell it out for you.

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:11 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

Off-seasons are when you do your strength and conditioning programmes. Work during the season is primarily to maintain the strength and muscle mass you put on in the gym during the off-season.

Specifically as that references to Hardaker, he'll have been getting 4-5 weeks less of off/pre-season every year than an equivalent player in the NRL. Last season that could have been as much as eight weeks. If you can't see how that will affect the amount of muscle mass he is able to put on compared to an NRL player, then I don't know how much more clearly I can spell it out for you.

Number of games played in 2015
Darius Boyd - 18
Jack Wighton - 21
Brett Morris - 14
Ben Barba - 17
Josh Hoffman - 24
Brett Stewart - 22
Billy Slater - 9
Jake Mamo - 9
RTS - 29
Lachlan Coote - 22
Michael Gordon - 23
Matt Moylan - 11
Josh Dugan - 25
Greg Inglis - 23
Blake Ferguson - 16
James Tedesco - 24

Zak Hardaker - 30

There might be an odd game wrong here or there but it gives an idea. Only RTS is close to Hardaker in number of games played. And all except those 2 had their season over by 2nd October. And RTS didn't have his next competitive game until 3rd March whereas Hardaker was back 4th Feb.

It has an effect. And season upon season has a cumulative effect. Is it the only factor in the different quality? No of course not (the number of kids playing the game, 5x more in Sydney alone than in England) but it's a factor that can't be ignored or downplayed.

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:23 am  

It does, but the NRL is far physically harder which would offset just counting the number of games.

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:14 am  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

It does, but the NRL is far physically harder which would offset just counting the number of games.

How many games of NRL did you play so that we can more accurately take into account the differing physicality?

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:36 am  

ThePrinter wrote:

How many games of NRL did you play so that we can more accurately take into account the differing physicality?

The only way we can judge the physicality of both leagues is when they come up against each other. Even you would have to admit in recent years that gap has been shown to be large and growing. Let's not forget the NRL sides are still in pre season at that stage. You would have to agree the superior fitness showed in the Cowboys v Rhinos game given the way the Cowboys scored at will in the second half

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:45 am  

Andy Gilder wrote:

Off-seasons are when you do your strength and conditioning programmes. Work during the season is primarily to maintain the strength and muscle mass you put on in the gym during the off-season.

Specifically as that references to Hardaker, he'll have been getting 4-5 weeks less of off/pre-season every year than an equivalent player in the NRL. Last season that could have been as much as eight weeks. If you can't see how that will affect the amount of muscle mass he is able to put on compared to an NRL player, then I don't know how much more clearly I can spell it out for you.

You could only spell it out if the pre season was shown to be any longer all you have demonstrated is the off season is longer. It could be and possibly is that pre season is a similar length i.e. 3 months it is just the conditioning is far superior?

You have also avoided the intensity of the NRL and the cumulative impact of fitter, heavier faster players constantly hitting each other and yet they still are far fitter than SL players.

Hardaker himself has said the training at Penrith is longer and harder than it was at Leeds

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:09 am  

ThePrinter - strictly speaking I'd have to have played both SL and NRL to make the comparison. Since I'm highly unlikely to change thaty position, I'll have to go with the views of players who have, and my own perspective of how physically soft SL backs look when they first play NRL.

From a viewing persepctive, I'd argue the WCC matches summed up how much more physical the NRL teams are, with Sts and Wigan getting absolutely battered, to the point that people were raving about how good Nikorima and Hastings were for the Roosters. Like Luke Gale against Leeds, any half back can look good when their forwards are mullering the opposition.

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:03 am  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

ThePrinter - strictly speaking I'd have to have played both SL and NRL to make the comparison. Since I'm highly unlikely to change thaty position, I'll have to go with the views of players who have, and my own perspective of how physically soft SL backs look when they first play NRL.

From a viewing persepctive, I'd argue the WCC matches summed up how much more physical the NRL teams are, with Sts and Wigan getting absolutely battered, to the point that people were raving about how good Nikorima and Hastings were for the Roosters. Like Luke Gale against Leeds, any half back can look good when their forwards are mullering the opposition.

Quite!!

Re: Hardaker benched for 80 mins today : Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:57 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

You could only spell it out if the pre season was shown to be any longer all you have demonstrated is the off season is longer.

I can tell you for definite that Brisbane started their 2015 pre-season in mid-November 2014. That's four months before Round 1 of the NRL, and three months before their World Club Series game at Wigan.

So their pre-season lasted longer than most England players off-season.