Re: Hetherington out : Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:46 pm  

What's made Hetherington the best in the business? Yes he was a pretty damn good coach back in the day and has generally been a great spotter of talent. His management of the salary cap in the golden era was a piece of artistry, although more recently it has been in question. He's a bloody good Rugby League CEO - at Sheffield and at Leeds his businesses made and make money.

I don't think there are any other CEOs in the sport who can match him on the above but what makes him absolutely unique is the dealmaking. His ability to make money for his club and his co-owner are remarkable.

Hetherington built our club. We would be literally nothing without him and Caddick couldn't have done any of it without him. Has he still got it? He's still running the business in a thoroughly effective way but has handed the football role on. Only a crazy person would want to get rid of him.


Hetherington's greatest deals (in no particular order):

1. Getting Leeds Met to buy Leeds Tykes (and take on that loss-making business). And then getting Leeds Met to pay £10m for Caddick to take it off their hands again.

2. Signing Iestyn Harris for £325k and then building a team and a business around him.

3. Selling Iestyn Harris to Welsh RU for £750k. And then effectively selling him again to Bradford for £550k.

4. Selling the RU club's 'P' shares for £5m, promising to keep hold of the cash to enable the club to make a challenge back to the top flight but actually stripping it out to send back to Caddick, effectively repaying a large chunk of the money Caddick had been happy to write off into that money pit over the years. OK depending on your point of view this may or may not be heroic, but if you're wondering why Caddick's pretty relaxed about massively bumping up the Rhinos' playing and coaching budget this year and potentially sticking his hand in his pocket over the next few years, remember that Hetherington got him back all that cash which he'd been content to write off).

5. He made Sheffield Eagles from nothing. Literally nothing. And eventually sold the company for a very healthy sum. Over 12 years he built them into an operation which was moderately profitable but was able to prosper by developing and selling players. Including Daryll Powell to Keighley, for £135k.

6. Signing Daryll Powell + Darren Fleary + Phil Cantillon + Rob Roberts + a bunch of others who never played for Leeds (or played again in Simon Irving's case) for a total of £25k.

7. He and Caddick bought Leeds RLFC for almost nothing. A company which was loss-making but which had a huge amount of valuable real estate. A proper asset stripper could have come in and made hay. Instead Hetherington turned the company round before promptly selling half the real estate for £12m, which wiped out the legacy debts and provided the funding to build the Carnegie Stand.

8. He rebuilt the stadium! And after many years of trying to leverage cash from Leeds council, got their support in a way which worked for both YCCC and Leeds and materially brought down the costs of interest on the financing package.

The last one came in place of the dream for the biggest deal of all, one which didn't quite come off - when we bought a couple of plots of land for £105k which Hetherington envisaged could be redeveloped and sold off to fund £25m of stadium redevelopment. It would have been the pinnacle of Hetherington's career but didn't quite get over the line.

Re: Hetherington out : Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:07 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

What's made Hetherington the best in the business? Yes he was a pretty damn good coach back in the day and has generally been a great spotter of talent. His management of the salary cap in the golden era was a piece of artistry, although more recently it has been in question. He's a bloody good Rugby League CEO - at Sheffield and at Leeds his businesses made and make money.

I don't think there are any other CEOs in the sport who can match him on the above but what makes him absolutely unique is the dealmaking. His ability to make money for his club and his co-owner are remarkable.

Hetherington built our club. We would be literally nothing without him and Caddick couldn't have done any of it without him. Has he still got it? He's still running the business in a thoroughly effective way but has handed the football role on. Only a crazy person would want to get rid of him.


Hetherington's greatest deals (in no particular order):

1. Getting Leeds Met to buy Leeds Tykes (and take on that loss-making business). And then getting Leeds Met to pay £10m for Caddick to take it off their hands again.

2. Signing Iestyn Harris for £325k and then building a team and a business around him.

3. Selling Iestyn Harris to Welsh RU for £750k. And then effectively selling him again to Bradford for £550k.

4. Selling the RU club's 'P' shares for £5m, promising to keep hold of the cash to enable the club to make a challenge back to the top flight but actually stripping it out to send back to Caddick, effectively repaying a large chunk of the money Caddick had been happy to write off into that money pit over the years. OK depending on your point of view this may or may not be heroic, but if you're wondering why Caddick's pretty relaxed about massively bumping up the Rhinos' playing and coaching budget this year and potentially sticking his hand in his pocket over the next few years, remember that Hetherington got him back all that cash which he'd been content to write off).

5. He made Sheffield Eagles from nothing. Literally nothing. And eventually sold the company for a very healthy sum. Over 12 years he built them into an operation which was moderately profitable but was able to prosper by developing and selling players. Including Daryll Powell to Keighley, for £135k.

6. Signing Daryll Powell + Darren Fleary + Phil Cantillon + Rob Roberts + a bunch of others who never played for Leeds (or played again in Simon Irving's case) for a total of £25k.

7. He and Caddick bought Leeds RLFC for almost nothing. A company which was loss-making but which had a huge amount of valuable real estate. A proper asset stripper could have come in and made hay. Instead Hetherington turned the company round before promptly selling half the real estate for £12m, which wiped out the legacy debts and provided the funding to build the Carnegie Stand.

8. He rebuilt the stadium! And after many years of trying to leverage cash from Leeds council, got their support in a way which worked for both YCCC and Leeds and materially brought down the costs of interest on the financing package.

The last one came in place of the dream for the biggest deal of all, one which didn't quite come off - when we bought a couple of plots of land for £105k which Hetherington envisaged could be redeveloped and sold off to fund £25m of stadium redevelopment. It would have been the pinnacle of Hetherington's career but didn't quite get over the line.

Nah!! Get rid! We’ve not won the comp for 2 years! He’s past his sell by date. He’s done. He’s out of his depth. He was just lucky.

Or whatever other blindly repeated, unthinking cliche you want to pick from.

Re: Hetherington out : Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:03 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

What's made Hetherington the best in the business? Yes he was a pretty damn good coach back in the day and has generally been a great spotter of talent. His management of the salary cap in the golden era was a piece of artistry, although more recently it has been in question. He's a bloody good Rugby League CEO - at Sheffield and at Leeds his businesses made and make money.

I don't think there are any other CEOs in the sport who can match him on the above but what makes him absolutely unique is the dealmaking. His ability to make money for his club and his co-owner are remarkable.

Hetherington built our club. We would be literally nothing without him and Caddick couldn't have done any of it without him. Has he still got it? He's still running the business in a thoroughly effective way but has handed the football role on. Only a crazy person would want to get rid of him.


Hetherington's greatest deals (in no particular order):

1. Getting Leeds Met to buy Leeds Tykes (and take on that loss-making business). And then getting Leeds Met to pay £10m for Caddick to take it off their hands again.

2. Signing Iestyn Harris for £325k and then building a team and a business around him.

3. Selling Iestyn Harris to Welsh RU for £750k. And then effectively selling him again to Bradford for £550k.

4. Selling the RU club's 'P' shares for £5m, promising to keep hold of the cash to enable the club to make a challenge back to the top flight but actually stripping it out to send back to Caddick, effectively repaying a large chunk of the money Caddick had been happy to write off into that money pit over the years. OK depending on your point of view this may or may not be heroic, but if you're wondering why Caddick's pretty relaxed about massively bumping up the Rhinos' playing and coaching budget this year and potentially sticking his hand in his pocket over the next few years, remember that Hetherington got him back all that cash which he'd been content to write off).

5. He made Sheffield Eagles from nothing. Literally nothing. And eventually sold the company for a very healthy sum. Over 12 years he built them into an operation which was moderately profitable but was able to prosper by developing and selling players. Including Daryll Powell to Keighley, for £135k.

6. Signing Daryll Powell + Darren Fleary + Phil Cantillon + Rob Roberts + a bunch of others who never played for Leeds (or played again in Simon Irving's case) for a total of £25k.

7. He and Caddick bought Leeds RLFC for almost nothing. A company which was loss-making but which had a huge amount of valuable real estate. A proper asset stripper could have come in and made hay. Instead Hetherington turned the company round before promptly selling half the real estate for £12m, which wiped out the legacy debts and provided the funding to build the Carnegie Stand.

8. He rebuilt the stadium! And after many years of trying to leverage cash from Leeds council, got their support in a way which worked for both YCCC and Leeds and materially brought down the costs of interest on the financing package.

The last one came in place of the dream for the biggest deal of all, one which didn't quite come off - when we bought a couple of plots of land for £105k which Hetherington envisaged could be redeveloped and sold off to fund £25m of stadium redevelopment. It would have been the pinnacle of Hetherington's career but didn't quite get over the line.

Great post.

Re: Hetherington out : Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:31 am  

There is no doubt that Hetherington deserves huge credit, and most on her would give him it, myself included.

The truth is somewhere between the ends of the spectrum. He’s made some bad decisions along the way too. Exciting signings such as Senior, Harris, McDermott etc in the early years just haven’t been replicated in recent times.

He hasn’t got the playing squad right for some time, however much Brian Mac did or didn’t have a hand in that.

Appointing KS as DoR is recognition of that - or maybe passing a hot potato on...

GH knows well that if the fan base really turned against him, he would risk losing everything and so putting KS in the firing line is a piece of great sidestepping.

I absolutely don’t think GH should leave the club: the current arrangement is probably about right. What irritates me is the man’s apparent arrogance - but that’s not unusual for self-made entrepreneurs.

Re: Hetherington out : Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:16 am  

KaeruJim wrote:

There is no doubt that Hetherington deserves huge credit, and most on her would give him it, myself included.

The truth is somewhere between the ends of the spectrum. He’s made some bad decisions along the way too. Exciting signings such as Senior, Harris, McDermott etc in the early years just haven’t been replicated in recent times.

He hasn’t got the playing squad right for some time, however much Brian Mac did or didn’t have a hand in that.

Appointing KS as DoR is recognition of that - or maybe passing a hot potato on...

GH knows well that if the fan base really turned against him, he would risk losing everything and so putting KS in the firing line is a piece of great sidestepping.

I absolutely don’t think GH should leave the club: the current arrangement is probably about right. What irritates me is the man’s apparent arrogance - but that’s not unusual for self-made entrepreneurs.

There's a big difference between ignorance and choosing to acknowledge certain things. I dont think he is unaware of very much tbh, how he handles it doesnt make him arrogant either, just a diplomat to a certain extent

Re: Hetherington out : Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:47 am  

Most worrying thing imo is that Hetherington still believes this squad is a play off team. You could see that was the case from his responses on backchat when he was on there after the first 8 games or so earlier in the season.

I don't think anyone would question his huge value and contribution to the club over many years now. If he does carry on for the foreseeable; and he has every right to do so imo, he has a lot of big decisions to make that will set our path for the next decade to come.

Re: Hetherington out : Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:53 am  

He’s been as good if not better for this club than any of the players we’ve seen under his tenure. He’s got a few things wrong in the last 4-5 years but every signing is a gamble.

Where he’s really taken his eye off the ball is with the kids, and that’s been a monumental screwup. Looks like we are getting it right now, but there’s still 3-5 years to go before they become the mainstays of the first team.

The quality of player we’ve signed in the last few years are the reason why we are where we are, along with some poor coaching choices he’s made.

No matter what he says he’s culpable for the current situation, but is still massively in credit overall.

Hetherington out, don’t make me laugh...

Re: Hetherington out : Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:55 pm  

I'd say junior development has been poor for a long time but that was hidden by having the golden generation last so long.

Since 2015 only Walker has forced his way into the first team, but whilst it didn't matter that we only produced one every couple of years before then, its compounded poor recruitment since then.

The good news is that we seem to have ramped up the focus finally, but it's going to take several years from now to bear fruit.

Re: Hetherington out : Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:21 pm  

Forgot Newman. But neither he or Walker are the finished article yet.

Re: Hetherington out : Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:40 pm  

I think there has been an element in the youth development that isn't being considered. Kids haven't wanted to sign for the youth team when there has been no chance of getting into the first team during the golden years, has to be taken into consideration