Re: Smith out ASAP : Tue May 28, 2024 3:29 pm  

exiledrhino wrote:

Jim, give us an insight into what you like about Smith's coaching.

For me, I'm sure he has some really interesting ideas and thoughts. The reality is that this is one of the biggest jobs in world RL, and for whatever reason the messaging isn't getting across. It's not as black and white as people make out that he's a terrible coach, as he wouldn't have held the positions he has if that were the case, even at assitant level. I think Leeds is just too big and too much pressure for him. His tactics and philosophy might be better suited to a small, plucky side who could surprise teams with some unusual tactics the way Tolouse played in SL, but not for a top four club.

This is a good post, which is why I really dislike the personal aspect of some of the criticism (well I dislike that in general for players and coaches) Ive seen fraud, idiot, clueless and all sorts thrown at RS.

Fact is he has been in and around coaching for a long time, done some great work with Norths Devils, but as you say it could be that he's just not a good fit for a club like Leeds, well maybe not as head coach, as speaking to players and people within the club the stuff he has done with the whole set up has been very good - it's just seemingly not translating into results for the first team, which is ultimately what will be his downfall.

It will be interesting to see where his career goes when he leaves Leeds

Re: Smith out ASAP : Tue May 28, 2024 3:41 pm  

exiledrhino wrote:

Jim, give us an insight into what you like about Smith's coaching.

For me, I'm sure he has some really interesting ideas and thoughts. The reality is that this is one of the biggest jobs in world RL, and for whatever reason the messaging isn't getting across. It's not as black and white as people make out that he's a terrible coach, as he wouldn't have held the positions he has if that were the case, even at assitant level. I think Leeds is just too big and too much pressure for him. His tactics and philosophy might be better suited to a small, plucky side who could surprise teams with some unusual tactics the way Tolouse played in SL, but not for a top four club.

I think he is smart, I think he's logical, I think he knows the game deeply.

Where I think he's tripped up is some poor recruitment and retention decisions (although praise be he moved on a load of dead wood which was desperately needed), he's had some crap luck frankly, and I don't think he's coaching the side to it's strengths as much as his own vision of the game.

Tactically, with the injuries, loss of form and lack of ability to execute in this team, I really don't think we've seen what RS is about. I don't take any glee that we're struggling still, but it is what it is and sometimes a change of voice in the club is needed - the players will show us over the next few fixtures whether they are still with Smith or not.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Tue May 28, 2024 3:42 pm  

christopher wrote:

This is a good post, which is why I really dislike the personal aspect of some of the criticism (well I dislike that in general for players and coaches) Ive seen fraud, idiot, clueless and all sorts thrown at RS.

Fact is he has been in and around coaching for a long time, done some great work with Norths Devils, but as you say it could be that he's just not a good fit for a club like Leeds, well maybe not as head coach, as speaking to players and people within the club the stuff he has done with the whole set up has been very good - it's just seemingly not translating into results for the first team, which is ultimately what will be his downfall.

It will be interesting to see where his career goes when he leaves Leeds

Probably go back to NRL and headhunt our best youth talent mate...

Re: Smith out ASAP : Tue May 28, 2024 3:58 pm  

KaeruJim wrote:

I think he is smart, I think he's logical, I think he knows the game deeply.

Where I think he's tripped up is some poor recruitment and retention decisions (although praise be he moved on a load of dead wood which was desperately needed), he's had some crap luck frankly, and I don't think he's coaching the side to it's strengths as much as his own vision of the game.

Tactically, with the injuries, loss of form and lack of ability to execute in this team, I really don't think we've seen what RS is about. I don't take any glee that we're struggling still, but it is what it is and sometimes a change of voice in the club is needed - the players will show us over the next few fixtures whether they are still with Smith or not.

I think what's been disappointing is I think we did see what a Smith coached team was all about in those first 19 games to get us to the GF. But for whatever reason it's not continued through.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Tue May 28, 2024 4:18 pm  

I think bottom line is GH took a gamble on the cheap and it backfired.
If his pedigree was similar to that of Woolf and Holbrook and probably better than Peet and Burgess.
Then we have just been unlucky in what we have ended up with.
Peet and Burgess were probably a bigger gamble especially for the clubs they are now coaching.
Whilst I`m no big fan of Smith and the way he portrays himself.
We need an established coach or another gamble decision such as the names I mentioned previously in Briers or Carr or Holbrook.
Or if he`s willing, Butterill.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Tue May 28, 2024 5:00 pm  

KaeruJim wrote:

I think he is smart, I think he's logical, I think he knows the game deeply.

Where I think he's tripped up is some poor recruitment and retention decisions (although praise be he moved on a load of dead wood which was desperately needed), he's had some crap luck frankly, and I don't think he's coaching the side to it's strengths as much as his own vision of the game.

Tactically, with the injuries, loss of form and lack of ability to execute in this team, I really don't think we've seen what RS is about. I don't take any glee that we're struggling still, but it is what it is and sometimes a change of voice in the club is needed - the players will show us over the next few fixtures whether they are still with Smith or not.

With respect we've had two years. We've seen exactly what Rohan's style of rugby is about. On his best day it's exhilarating, exciting and very hard to beat. But when was the last time we saw a best day? Middle of last year maybe? Even then we didn't see a complete performance. The only conclusion I can draw is that it just doesn't work and the results and the stats support that conclusively. If Rohan showed any indication that he could accept and adapt to that I could still get behind him. Despite multiple chances to reset his team haven’t changed their approach in any respect. We are awful week in week out. I don't see how you can really say any different.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Tue May 28, 2024 6:45 pm  

ArthurClues wrote:

With respect we've had two years. We've seen exactly what Rohan's style of rugby is about. On his best day it's exhilarating, exciting and very hard to beat. But when was the last time we saw a best day? Middle of last year maybe? Even then we didn't see a complete performance. The only conclusion I can draw is that it just doesn't work and the results and the stats support that conclusively. If Rohan showed any indication that he could accept and adapt to that I could still get behind him. Despite multiple chances to reset his team haven’t changed their approach in any respect. We are awful week in week out. I don't see how you can really say any different.

Definition of insanity and all that ….

In smith’s eyes, his system works perfectly but pesky things keep getting in the way. Mitigating circumstances. He’ll still be doing the same things and getting the same results in a decade, if we let him.

He must be stopped.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Tue May 28, 2024 7:12 pm  

Smith's track record of actually coaching sides in decent level competition was better than Holbrook and as good as if not better than Woolf's.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Tue May 28, 2024 7:16 pm  

Woolf took over a stable championship winning saints side, Smith took over a rabble and a salary cap nightmare.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Tue May 28, 2024 9:11 pm  

ArthurClues wrote:

With respect we've had two years. We've seen exactly what Rohan's style of rugby is about. On his best day it's exhilarating, exciting and very hard to beat. But when was the last time we saw a best day? Middle of last year maybe? Even then we didn't see a complete performance. The only conclusion I can draw is that it just doesn't work and the results and the stats support that conclusively. If Rohan showed any indication that he could accept and adapt to that I could still get behind him. Despite multiple chances to reset his team haven’t changed their approach in any respect. We are awful week in week out. I don't see how you can really say any different.

But what style is going to work when players are making 14/15 errors a game Clueso? You can’t implement anything.

I do agree we’ve seen a lack of appetite to adapt and change in the face of evidence. Like the ruck speed was slower than promised, so we just complained about it for 2 months and lost the ruck. Like asking small wingers/FB to take the brutal carries out of yardage, when clearly we need to pick and choose. With Fus fit that might work better; but not with who we’ve actually had. Net result is we fail to establish any momentum in sets and the opposition are dominating us in the ruck.

Anyway if Smith is going to save his Leeds career, he’s going to have to deliver some strong performances and results in this next sequence that’s for sure.