Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:48 pm  

krisleeds wrote:

Golding has zero pace and couldn't skin a rice pudding.

He has made our 4th most tackles busts and our 7th most metres both more than Walker as are his average metre per carry and with 249 tackles is way ahead of Walker on 71

Walker looks to have a bit more pace off the mark but over a distance I doubt is quicker than Golding.

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:50 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Perhaps it has to be accepted that Sutcliffe simply isn't good enough to play in an elite SL team?

Agree. He has plenty of chances and falls way below the mark consistently.

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:00 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

and with 249 tackles is way ahead of Walker on 71
.

Errrrrrm maybe because he’s played a lot of minutes at 9

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:33 pm  

Seth wrote:

Errrrrrm maybe because he’s played a lot of minutes at 9

Errm... yes this is true but the point I contested was the silly claim that " he has zero pace and couldn't skin a rice pudding"

You chose to take my quote out of context. Perhaps you should read the whole of my comment regarding tackle busts, metres made and metres per carry which are all better than Walker.

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:42 am  

The number of tackles he’s made is irrelevant to him being able to ‘skin’ anyone and further irrelevant because he’s played a lot in a position where you make lots of tackles. You tried to use a completely irrelevant stat to embellish the picture you wanted to create, not out of context at all. You should have compared the number of DH passes or marker tackles too just for balance.

Trying to highlight an individuals stats against another is a very limiting way to assess their comparative value in the team. That is taking information without context.

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:07 am  

It is limited, but I think Juan's been fairly consistent in trying to raise the issue of double-standards, with some players seemingly immune to criticism (Walker) whilst others get slated (Golding) for similar issues.

Once the dust has settled on this season and we wait for next year we could have a thread devoted to one player/position at a time and what people think of them moving to 2019 and beyond. Starting at full back should get it off to an interesting start.....

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:14 am  

Seth wrote:

The number of tackles he’s made is irrelevant to him being able to ‘skin’ anyone and further irrelevant because he’s played a lot in a position where you make lots of tackles. You tried to use a completely irrelevant stat to embellish the picture you wanted to create, not out of context at all. You should have compared the number of DH passes or marker tackles too just for balance.

Trying to highlight an individuals stats against another is a very limiting way to assess their comparative value in the team. That is taking information without context.

But JC uses stats to reinforce his Coaching acumen mate.

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:12 am  

It`s a difficult one.
As I feel Golding is the better defender and Walker possibly the better in attack although both have made errors.
I`m sure Walker is an excellent prospect and I also think the same about Golding with the right coaching.
On another note I would not like to see JJB go round another year the same applies to Delaney.
Average players in our squad over the years have been made to look good by the quality of others around them.
Every team has that.
But when the quality goes you either replace them with the same quality or you buy inferior players and end up like we have this year as the average players in our squad are shown up for what they are.

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:36 am  

Ultimately I feel both Walker and Golding are good players who need to be nurtured and accommodated in consistent positions. I'd hate to see them follow the path of homegrown players with bags of potential who have held the full-back shirt in the past, such as Lee Smith and more recently Liam Sutcliffe.

Both players have had their ups and downs...

Golding struggled to begin with, but a few games into last season I was satisfied for him to be given the full-back role. His defence was immense, but while their were glimmers of promise on attack, I would have liked to see him bag a few more tries when we were winning more regularly. Since the FB position became contested with Walker, I think Golding's attack has improved a bit, but some of the defensive weaknesses seen in 2016 have also crept back in.

Walker looked amazing coming into games at the end of last season. His step was reminiscent of Iestyn Harris with pace, and he managed to pull off some real defensive heroics. At this point the decision to give him the FB shirt over Golding seemed to be a no-brainer. We finally had a player who, given time, looked like he could be as good as the departed Zak Hardaker. Unfortunately, Walker hasn't really hit the same heights this season. Defensive errors have crept in, much of his attacking threat seems to have been nullified, and he is coming in for a regular bashing.

ATEOTD, neither looks amazing right now. Walker arguably has more potential, being younger (let's not revisit the DOB debate!), but he still needs to develop physically, and show that he's more than an end of 2017 wonder. I suspect if both had been able to have a longer run in a winning side they'd be a lot better for it.

Re: Dave Furner - New Head Coach : Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:02 pm  

It will be interesting to see how players develop under Furner. Not just youngsters like Walker & Golding, but more established players. Comparable to how Holbrook brought on the youngsters at Saints but improved players like Makinson & gave new leases of life to has-beens like Wilkin.