Re: Smith out ASAP : Tue May 28, 2024 2:52 pm  

KaeruJim wrote:

... the idea of them sniffing white powder off girls at the weekend while laughing at the few hundred quid you might have ponied up.

What a horrible image

Re: Smith out ASAP : Tue May 28, 2024 3:14 pm  

Backwoodsman wrote:

I don’t have a negative attitude, I have a realistic attitude that recognises the mess we are in. It goes without saying we have the best facilities in super l league. Which makes it frustrating when you see the dross that’s served up on the field. Have some sympathy with Hethrington he appointed Smith and Smith has failed. Although I am mystified as to what he saw in Smith , highlighted by the esteemed bullseye on the bulls site.Foundations are solid , but key elements missing for a long time? You might like to explain what the key elements are that we are missing, apart from the fact several players aren’t good enough for a potential top four club. Plus the coach is out of his depth.

Well yes it looks that way - I've said loads before that in order for us to compete in the top 4 next season, which is one thing everyone on this forum would agree on - we need 2-3 real top quality signings. I would go prop, second row and a new scrum half. I'm assuming Martin will leave and whereas we lose Mr Consistent and a great goal kicker, it does give us an opportunity to find a more Sironen-esque player. Our pack is too soft throughout, we need to change it up.

I know this is as popular as a poo in a perfume factory but I think RS is a good coach, I'm just not sure where he comes back from losing the fan base to the extent he now has, and I said at the end of last year, he would live or die on his next signings and too many haven't worked unfortunately. His judgement has been off with too many players when the side us under so much pressure.

It looks increasingly like we need an experienced hand now to guide this young side forward. I wouldn't have a problem with that, but it does need to be a proven coach. Said elsewhere but from the little I've seen, Brad Arthur would be a good fit for us potentially, although his star has fallen quite a bit over the last 18 months a little like Demetriou.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Tue May 28, 2024 3:15 pm  

KaeruJim wrote:

I don't think that is spot on. GH will, I imagine, want Leeds to be successful, winning things again, and attracting more sponsorship and higher attendances. What he won't want is declining support and spend at the club going forwards.

I don't know why so many seem to have such a negative attitude towards the club they support - maybe it's an ingrained "us and them" mentality. My view is that GH's race may well have run its course from some time ago now, but the club itself is still amazeballs and our facilities are the best in SL by a distance. Our foundations are solid, but clearly we are missing key elements still and have been for a long time.

It's far more likely that GH and other senior figures at Leeds are hungry for success and want us to be doing much better, than the idea of them sniffing white powder off girls at the weekend while laughing at the few hundred quid you might have ponied up.

I agree with you here on GH. We're fortunate he's been such a success initially with rugby related matters, but overall as a custodian of the club, which is in a fantastic position overall.

I said on another thread, Smith was a gamble, which simply hasn't come off. His background isn't a million miles apart from Holbrook and Woolf in terms of assistant jobs and Qld Cup coaching, it's a real shame it's not worked.

Back on GH, I don't think he's run his race in terms of CEO, but I do think it's important to have a DoR figure, who will choose the head coach, be in charge of recruitment and oversee the rugby department. GH can then focus on his strength of running the business side of things. I used to think that Smith would ironically make a better DoR than coach, due to his ability to get rid of the deadwood on the roster, but his choices in recruitment this season have changed my mind, and I think we need a fresh approach altogether.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Tue May 28, 2024 3:21 pm  

KaeruJim wrote:

Well yes it looks that way - I've said loads before that in order for us to compete in the top 4 next season, which is one thing everyone on this forum would agree on - we need 2-3 real top quality signings. I would go prop, second row and a new scrum half. I'm assuming Martin will leave and whereas we lose Mr Consistent and a great goal kicker, it does give us an opportunity to find a more Sironen-esque player. Our pack is too soft throughout, we need to change it up.

I know this is as popular as a poo in a perfume factory but I think RS is a good coach, I'm just not sure where he comes back from losing the fan base to the extent he now has, and I said at the end of last year, he would live or die on his next signings and too many haven't worked unfortunately. His judgement has been off with too many players when the side us under so much pressure.

It looks increasingly like we need an experienced hand now to guide this young side forward. I wouldn't have a problem with that, but it does need to be a proven coach. Said elsewhere but from the little I've seen, Brad Arthur would be a good fit for us potentially, although his star has fallen quite a bit over the last 18 months a little like Demetriou.

Jim, give us an insight into what you like about Smith's coaching.

For me, I'm sure he has some really interesting ideas and thoughts. The reality is that this is one of the biggest jobs in world RL, and for whatever reason the messaging isn't getting across. It's not as black and white as people make out that he's a terrible coach, as he wouldn't have held the positions he has if that were the case, even at assitant level. I think Leeds is just too big and too much pressure for him. His tactics and philosophy might be better suited to a small, plucky side who could surprise teams with some unusual tactics the way Tolouse played in SL, but not for a top four club.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Tue May 28, 2024 3:29 pm  

exiledrhino wrote:

Jim, give us an insight into what you like about Smith's coaching.

For me, I'm sure he has some really interesting ideas and thoughts. The reality is that this is one of the biggest jobs in world RL, and for whatever reason the messaging isn't getting across. It's not as black and white as people make out that he's a terrible coach, as he wouldn't have held the positions he has if that were the case, even at assitant level. I think Leeds is just too big and too much pressure for him. His tactics and philosophy might be better suited to a small, plucky side who could surprise teams with some unusual tactics the way Tolouse played in SL, but not for a top four club.

This is a good post, which is why I really dislike the personal aspect of some of the criticism (well I dislike that in general for players and coaches) Ive seen fraud, idiot, clueless and all sorts thrown at RS.

Fact is he has been in and around coaching for a long time, done some great work with Norths Devils, but as you say it could be that he's just not a good fit for a club like Leeds, well maybe not as head coach, as speaking to players and people within the club the stuff he has done with the whole set up has been very good - it's just seemingly not translating into results for the first team, which is ultimately what will be his downfall.

It will be interesting to see where his career goes when he leaves Leeds

Re: Smith out ASAP : Tue May 28, 2024 3:41 pm  

exiledrhino wrote:

Jim, give us an insight into what you like about Smith's coaching.

For me, I'm sure he has some really interesting ideas and thoughts. The reality is that this is one of the biggest jobs in world RL, and for whatever reason the messaging isn't getting across. It's not as black and white as people make out that he's a terrible coach, as he wouldn't have held the positions he has if that were the case, even at assitant level. I think Leeds is just too big and too much pressure for him. His tactics and philosophy might be better suited to a small, plucky side who could surprise teams with some unusual tactics the way Tolouse played in SL, but not for a top four club.

I think he is smart, I think he's logical, I think he knows the game deeply.

Where I think he's tripped up is some poor recruitment and retention decisions (although praise be he moved on a load of dead wood which was desperately needed), he's had some crap luck frankly, and I don't think he's coaching the side to it's strengths as much as his own vision of the game.

Tactically, with the injuries, loss of form and lack of ability to execute in this team, I really don't think we've seen what RS is about. I don't take any glee that we're struggling still, but it is what it is and sometimes a change of voice in the club is needed - the players will show us over the next few fixtures whether they are still with Smith or not.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Tue May 28, 2024 3:42 pm  

christopher wrote:

This is a good post, which is why I really dislike the personal aspect of some of the criticism (well I dislike that in general for players and coaches) Ive seen fraud, idiot, clueless and all sorts thrown at RS.

Fact is he has been in and around coaching for a long time, done some great work with Norths Devils, but as you say it could be that he's just not a good fit for a club like Leeds, well maybe not as head coach, as speaking to players and people within the club the stuff he has done with the whole set up has been very good - it's just seemingly not translating into results for the first team, which is ultimately what will be his downfall.

It will be interesting to see where his career goes when he leaves Leeds

Probably go back to NRL and headhunt our best youth talent mate...

Re: Smith out ASAP : Tue May 28, 2024 3:58 pm  

KaeruJim wrote:

I think he is smart, I think he's logical, I think he knows the game deeply.

Where I think he's tripped up is some poor recruitment and retention decisions (although praise be he moved on a load of dead wood which was desperately needed), he's had some crap luck frankly, and I don't think he's coaching the side to it's strengths as much as his own vision of the game.

Tactically, with the injuries, loss of form and lack of ability to execute in this team, I really don't think we've seen what RS is about. I don't take any glee that we're struggling still, but it is what it is and sometimes a change of voice in the club is needed - the players will show us over the next few fixtures whether they are still with Smith or not.

I think what's been disappointing is I think we did see what a Smith coached team was all about in those first 19 games to get us to the GF. But for whatever reason it's not continued through.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Tue May 28, 2024 4:18 pm  

I think bottom line is GH took a gamble on the cheap and it backfired.
If his pedigree was similar to that of Woolf and Holbrook and probably better than Peet and Burgess.
Then we have just been unlucky in what we have ended up with.
Peet and Burgess were probably a bigger gamble especially for the clubs they are now coaching.
Whilst I`m no big fan of Smith and the way he portrays himself.
We need an established coach or another gamble decision such as the names I mentioned previously in Briers or Carr or Holbrook.
Or if he`s willing, Butterill.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Tue May 28, 2024 5:00 pm  

KaeruJim wrote:

I think he is smart, I think he's logical, I think he knows the game deeply.

Where I think he's tripped up is some poor recruitment and retention decisions (although praise be he moved on a load of dead wood which was desperately needed), he's had some crap luck frankly, and I don't think he's coaching the side to it's strengths as much as his own vision of the game.

Tactically, with the injuries, loss of form and lack of ability to execute in this team, I really don't think we've seen what RS is about. I don't take any glee that we're struggling still, but it is what it is and sometimes a change of voice in the club is needed - the players will show us over the next few fixtures whether they are still with Smith or not.

With respect we've had two years. We've seen exactly what Rohan's style of rugby is about. On his best day it's exhilarating, exciting and very hard to beat. But when was the last time we saw a best day? Middle of last year maybe? Even then we didn't see a complete performance. The only conclusion I can draw is that it just doesn't work and the results and the stats support that conclusively. If Rohan showed any indication that he could accept and adapt to that I could still get behind him. Despite multiple chances to reset his team haven’t changed their approach in any respect. We are awful week in week out. I don't see how you can really say any different.