Re: Where do we go from here : Sat Aug 19, 2023 9:30 am  

Once were Loiners wrote:

Generally with a coach its difficult to judge until the team is really 'theirs'. That's certainly not the case with Smith. He signed mainly project players, with only a few of the first 17 having joined under him, and none in the really important positions, unless you count O'Connor as his pick.

Smith has overseen the departure of some of the players responsible for multiple years of dross. Players who were rubbish under multiple coaches but somehow stayed around as coaches came and went. This clear-out had to happen if we were to really move forward. Hard choices on moving players on had been avoided for far too long, and what could have been managed in a gradual way over multiple seasons has had to happen fast. This has undoubtedly affected morale and while I really don't like results this year, we've not been drawn into the relegation battle and should be in position to move forward next season.

I think its unfair to judge Smith too harshly on this year. He was brought in to turn the club around. The real test will be who he brings in, and how the team performs with his picks in key roles. It will be perfectly fair to judge him on how we go next year. Unless we sign another bunch of squad fillers....

Agree with most of this.
However, we haven't moved moved forwards this year, we've gone backwards.
Major surgery required for 2024.
I agree we should let Smith be part of that, but he needs backing with investment and he needs to deliver results.

Re: Where do we go from here : Sat Aug 19, 2023 2:39 pm  

Watching Goudemand he does a job, carries the ball and defends ok for his size, doesn't make many errors. But where's the point of difference in our pack, who's capable of a telling offload or breaking the line apart from 10 minute cameos from lisone and sangare. I hope after we sort the half backs problem theres a good replacement with that in mind for tetevano/Walters.

Re: Where do we go from here : Sat Aug 19, 2023 2:44 pm  

Also when you look at the importance of a coach in getting the best out of their players, how about briscoe who looked awful for us towards the end but is back to doing what he does well and doing it with enthusiasm.

Re: Where do we go from here : Sat Aug 19, 2023 3:15 pm  

Seth wrote:

Watching Goudemand he does a job, carries the ball and defends ok for his size, doesn't make many errors. But where's the point of difference in our pack, who's capable of a telling offload or breaking the line apart from 10 minute cameos from lisone and sangare. I hope after we sort the half backs problem theres a good replacement with that in mind for tetevano/Walters.

I’m hoping Goudemand is Donaldsons replacement (I think he’s off contract this year.

In terms of point of difference personally I have bigger issue with the back row. Traditionally that’s where it would come from. We’ve got lots of workmanlike players there without any real impact.

I’d maybe argue Cam Smith is our point of difference when he’s not having to be involved In absolutely everything trying to make up for the halves.

Re: Where do we go from here : Sat Aug 19, 2023 3:38 pm  

Seth wrote:

Watching Goudemand he does a job, carries the ball and defends ok for his size, doesn't make many errors. But where's the point of difference in our pack, who's capable of a telling offload or breaking the line apart from 10 minute cameos from lisone and sangare. I hope after we sort the half backs problem theres a good replacement with that in mind for tetevano/Walters.

Yeh he's a bit of a plodder really.
Clearly Cats don't need him.
Fine if he's a replacement for Donaldson, but given our current ambitions I expect he's the Tetevano replacement.

Re: Where do we go from here : Sat Aug 19, 2023 3:50 pm  

I wouldn't call him a plodder, he clearly trys to put himself about, just lacks the size or skill to really make and impact. Not dissimilar in that regard to Donaldson, so I hope he is the replacement. I've a lot of respect for what Donaldson has done but Goudemand seems a decent upgrade in that area, just not in a more influential role.

Re: Where do we go from here : Sat Aug 19, 2023 3:57 pm  

Once were Loiners wrote:

Generally with a coach its difficult to judge until the team is really 'theirs'. That's certainly not the case with Smith. He signed mainly project players, with only a few of the first 17 having joined under him, and none in the really important positions, unless you count O'Connor as his pick.

Smith has overseen the departure of some of the players responsible for multiple years of dross. Players who were rubbish under multiple coaches but somehow stayed around as coaches came and went. This clear-out had to happen if we were to really move forward. Hard choices on moving players on had been avoided for far too long, and what could have been managed in a gradual way over multiple seasons has had to happen fast. This has undoubtedly affected morale and while I really don't like results this year, we've not been drawn into the relegation battle and should be in position to move forward next season.

I think its unfair to judge Smith too harshly on this year. He was brought in to turn the club around. The real test will be who he brings in, and how the team performs with his picks in key roles. It will be perfectly fair to judge him on how we go next year. Unless we sign another bunch of squad fillers....

Just as a comparison Lam also inherited a squad and cobbled together players other teams deemed not good enough but are completely rejuvenated see Briscoe Charnley Mullhern etc is it a coincidence or good man management?

Re: Where do we go from here : Sat Aug 19, 2023 4:28 pm  

Good coaches, top coaches even, have a habit of making you say “wow look at the job he’s doing despite x and y” rather than “yeah we’ve done badly but that’s because of x and y”.

Smith is definitely the latter. I think next season will just be a repeat of this. If it starts off that way, get Smith the hell out of here.

Re: Where do we go from here : Sat Aug 19, 2023 4:55 pm  

and then it's start all over again.im with you though

Re: Where do we go from here : Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:00 pm  

tad rhino wrote:

and then it's start all over again.im with you though

Yup. But there’s always a chance Hetherington gets lucky with a coach. Hetherington needs to not be making rugby decisions. Everything he touches on that front turns to excrement.