Re: CONFIRMED | Zak Hardaker to Castleford Tigers : Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:16 pm  

sgtwilko wrote:

The point was purely about cas winning trophies it had nothing to do with another team. Including our own. Cas won't win trophies without a total transformation in defence.

If Gale was out as much as McGuire they would have been in a similar position to us.

Correct. And they won't have Dorn's attacking flair this year.

Re: CONFIRMED | Zak Hardaker to Castleford Tigers : Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:28 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

The fitness work you do in preseason is much different to the work you can do when the season starts and you're playing games on a weekly basis. So much time after a game is spent on recovery and getting bodies right for the next game, much different to the fitness work that take place in preseason. Our senior players will have been the last ones back to preseason and thus had the shortest time of all so no wonder why they were the ones dropping like flies picking up injuries, playing with knocks and looking unfit whilst the likes of Lilley and Keinhorst who started weeks earlier had good seasons in the circumstances.

The idea some have that because we lost 3/4 weeks of preseason, we should be OK by Round 4 and have caught up by then is completely wrong because once you lose that time in preseason you never get it back. Players who got injured early in the year obviously couldn't get fit and a number of players clearly had knocks that will have seen limited/unable to train during the week and thus again not able to get their fitness up.

The thing is as well no one is saying they handled it as well as possible and they've even admitted they could've done this and that differently. But it's not something they've had to go through before and not something they should ever have to go through again hopefully. It's okay to say other clubs had injuries and didn't struggle like Leeds (Leeds has had injuries before and not struggled to last year's extent) but none of those clubs had a depleted preseason so not comparable.

This is true and why comments were made about it being out of our control. Pre season fitness once lost can never be regained and perhaps why returning players looked so out of sorts.

Re: CONFIRMED | Zak Hardaker to Castleford Tigers : Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:51 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

This is true and why comments were made about it being out of our control. Pre season fitness once lost can never be regained and perhaps why returning players looked so out of sorts.

Well McDermott said at the end of the season that several weeks into the season he considered doing a mini preseason instead of the regular training. Who knows if things would've been better had he taken that option but it clearly shows that preseason training and regular season training are different things and that the coach was considering trying to hold a preseason training period in mid season clearly shows that they weren't able to get in what they wanted to before the season started.

Re: CONFIRMED | Zak Hardaker to Castleford Tigers : Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:10 pm  

Thank goodness Leeds pre-season fitness regime this time around hasn't been disrupted like it was last year and the players are able to experience a proper and familiar gym, a proper and familiar training pitch along with access to proper and familiar training gear.

I cannot imagine how terrible it must have been for all the players last year having to use alien and unfamiliar gyms, alien and unfamiliar training pitches along with alien and unfamiliar training gear.

Let's also hope for some proper and familiar coaching in 2017 to make a welcome return along with proper and familiar performances and execution of plays by the players as well because all of that went missing last season too.

Re: CONFIRMED | Zak Hardaker to Castleford Tigers : Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:14 pm  

William Eve wrote:

Thank goodness Leeds pre-season fitness regime this time around hasn't been disrupted like it was last year and the players are able to experience a proper and familiar gym, a proper and familiar training pitch along with access to proper and familiar training gear.

I cannot imagine how terrible it must have been for all the players last year having to use alien and unfamiliar gyms, alien and unfamiliar training pitches along with alien and unfamiliar training gear.

Let's also hope for some proper and familiar coaching in 2017 to make a welcome return along with proper and familiar performances and execution of plays by the players as well because all of that went missing last season too.

Do you mind letting people have a proper dicussion on here for once without your desperate need for attention piping in.

Re: CONFIRMED | Zak Hardaker to Castleford Tigers : Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:17 pm  

If fitness was a big issue, it is very valid to ask why a club the size of Leeds was unable to work around the floods. TBH its an excuse which shows up poor management.

Re: CONFIRMED | Zak Hardaker to Castleford Tigers : Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:39 pm  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

If fitness was a big issue, it is very valid to ask why a club the size of Leeds was unable to work around the floods. TBH its an excuse which shows up poor management.

As was mentioned during the year they had trouble finding places at such short notice. After a bit yes they get settled down but again that time is lost.

Remember the main first team came back to training much later that year (beginning of December) compared to usual years (a week or so into November) so they were going to have cram the work into a smaller window even before the floods.

Re: CONFIRMED | Zak Hardaker to Castleford Tigers : Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:43 pm  

there wasnt just one reason for our struggles last year, but a multitude of them. We had numerous issues that combined to create a pretty unique situation. We had the pre-season floods, the adjustment to working without Sinfield and Peacock, injuries, loss of form for certain players, Hardaker etc etc.

Now i would agree that none of these in isolation are good enough excuses for our performances, and it is likely that even as a combination it could have been handled differently.

My opinion is that early season we underperformed and at a certain point the club made a deliberate decision to use the year as a development year for giving the young players a chance in the expectation they would reap the rewards going forward. I think there are higher expectations for this year from the club for this year than people may expect.

Re: CONFIRMED | Zak Hardaker to Castleford Tigers : Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:10 am  

ThePrinter wrote:

As was mentioned during the year they had trouble finding places at such short notice. After a bit yes they get settled down but again that time is lost.

Remember the main first team came back to training much later that year (beginning of December) compared to usual years (a week or so into November) so they were going to have cram the work into a smaller window even before the floods.

These are elite Athletes we are talking about here not the local social clubs over 40's.
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect better especially 4/5wks into the season plus they didn't lose a FULL pre-season they still had some weeks & a trip to the USA.
Then onto the "nomad" reasoning they had ample time & offers into the year to settle into a training base imo & as Schoey pointed out Cas for e.g were out on a field with Tractor tyres etc & no mod cons in the gym either.
The excuse culture was built early & once they realised how far behind the rest they were the Club ran with it imo.
Aldo before anyone mentions expectency etc again its far from unreasonable to have expected better performances even allowing for injuries & the ridiculous Squad management.
Anyway the season is less than 6wks away & they can't start with ready made excuses so lets see how the next stage if the transition is handled because thus far its fallen flat on its arris.

Re: CONFIRMED | Zak Hardaker to Castleford Tigers : Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:29 am  

RHINO-MARK wrote:

These are elite Athletes we are talking about here not the local social clubs over 40's.
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect better especially 4/5wks into the season plus they didn't lose a FULL pre-season they still had some weeks & a trip to the USA .

Yes they are elite athletes.....but they're also facing other elite athletes who had much better preparation, not some teams from the local social clubs. And Ibdidn't say they lost a full preseason but they lost enough of it to be crucial.